The Liverpool Connection Podcast
The Liverpool Connection Podcast
Football and Music 1:1 with James Atkin of EMF
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Hi, this is Chris Hawkins and you're listening to the Liverpool Connection Podcast.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone and welcome to the Liverpool Connection podcast. I'm your host, daz, and this is my football and music episode where I bring somebody on usually who's into music and football. But again, this is just a musical guest today, so you won't get any football whatsoever, which is all right with me, because sometimes when you get somebody that you admire and you've listened to and you've grown up with, who is available to come on and have a good chat, I'm all for it. So my guest for today is James Atkin. He's the front man for EMF.
Speaker 2:If you don't know who emf is, in the next hour you will and they had a an amazing worldwide smash called unbelievable in the 90s and but he's also a solo artist got a brand new album that came out last year called kakadian rhythms and it is absolutely excellent. It and it reminds me of some of the older new order stuff, um, but we'll have a good chat about that. But welcome to the show, james. Hey, darren, thanks for having me on. So no football whatsoever. At least you know. You know what a football looks like, but you, you just, uh, it's not your cup of tea, which is, which is all right, all right, least you know, you know what a football looks like, but you, you just it's not your cup of tea, which is, which is all right, All right, Okay, but you know, isn't it the Euros this summer?
Speaker 2:So it is yeah look See, you know a little bit.
Speaker 1:That's it, man, we're on it. Yeah, I do like the international games and the European games and stuff, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean, for me it's more Premier League than internationals. But I want to I'm going straight in at the deep end I want to delve deep into what was your musical influences like growing up, like in your house, like for me, um, I mean my dad's from Redknoll, birmingham, so he's a Brummie, um, but he was big into, like you know, aussie black Sabbath, deep purple, and then my mom, um, actually, um, she's from Burnley and she was a massive Beatles and Elvis fan. So what was in your household, you know, growing up? What were you listening to?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I was from Birmingham as well originally. Certainly well, my parents my father was a bit of a folky used to take me to folk clubs, used to play banjo, used to sing rebel songs and folk songs, very political songs of that scene, and my mom was in this thing called the clarion choir which was kind of the lefty choir of burningham. So I did get dragged out. So there's a lot of culture going on around the house and certainly they had their own things. They were into the beatles, simon and garth, uncle, um, so yeah, I guess I was kind of always surrounded.
Speaker 1:I could always hear one of my youngest memories is just that music wafting up the stairs, you know of a bit of bob dylan or something. Um, so I guess it was all all there. Um, and when I lived in Birmingham before I moved, I was a rocker. So I loved Black Sabbath and you know bands like Queen and things like this and even Maiden and Saxon. I was a proper rocker. Didn't last very long, but you know that was the Birmingham thing, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:Were you wearing the denim jacket with the studs?
Speaker 1:Totally Denim jackets, patches galore. Um, I grew out of it quite quick, though I had many stages, man I was, I was a golfer a bit and then an indie kid. I mean, I'll talk for all this, but you know it was tribal in them days, isn't it? I had, I had lots of influences before I found acid house and that kind of changed it all, I think yeah, I, I think a lot of us were that way.
Speaker 2:I think I did about a year or two as a rocker. I did the same, did the stud bracelets, and then more into not not so much goth but more into like, uh, tepesh mode the stuff. But yeah, I think everyone that I know has been a rocker for at least a year or two, which you know. I mean, that's how you know. Obviously we've said, you know we're around the same age. Like the 70s was, very like it was, you know, guitar powered rock yeah rock, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So how did you for for going from that? Was it your teenage years you started to? You know, obviously get into electronic music.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I mean it was quite late in my teenage years. I mean, I think you're always influenced. I had an older brother who was a bit of a hippie actually, and as a bit of a hippie actually and as a bit of a backlash, because he used to like Tangerine Dream and Hawkwind and Gong, which is pretty out there progressive rock, and I think as a sort of backlash, I kind of really got into the jam and that new wave. Obviously I was a bit too young for punk, but I found indie music and kind of indie music. I was just totally, you know, I love the bunny men and the smiths and then the cure, um, and it was kind of new order. That turning point that was the electronic music. That kind of switched me on, because you know, synthesizers were a little bit of a dirty word for indie kids, especially a rocker coming, an indie kid, you know I mean, and, um, yeah, so, and then I didn't.
Speaker 1:I found sort of acid house and house and techno, probably not until I was about 18 or 19, but it, you know, it was 1988, 89, that was the summer of when it all kicked off, really, wasn't it? And it was. It was that balleric sort of Finney Tribe, and you know very Balearic beats and stuff. I didn't really understand it though, but I kind of liked it. I couldn't, you know, if you played me a Detroit house techno records and a Chicago house record, I probably wouldn't have been able to tell the difference, but I kind of just got drawn to it for some reason. It took me a while to work out what was going on, but it kind of got me, you know.
Speaker 2:Well, it was a movement, you know. I mean again. You know, 1985, I'd be listening to Depeche Mode, new Order, smith, bunnymen, exactly the same as you, and then this new music started to slowly like come in, and it was. You just kind of followed everyone, you know. I remember, uh, first hearing the diy system and just what is this like? I, I needed to hear more and I and I'm I was just like you too, like chicago, house, detroit, like what's the difference? But then, as you get older, you know the bass lines are different, you know melodies are different, but it hooked me. It was just, it was freedom back then as well. I think that's what it was like, you know, a big F you to the establishment as well, totally. I mean, people don't get that. It was rebel music and it was like a big FU to the establishment as well, totally.
Speaker 1:I mean, people don't get that. It was rebel music and it was a battle. You know, those free parties that we used to go to, it was like pretty sketchy and you know you felt like you were up against it and you were doing something different. It was a proper youth movement and it was really exciting and just hitting you at that right age. You know you've left your sort of parents as you can go out for, you know, 48, 72 hours and don't have to be back and no one's telling you what to do. You just you know it. Freedom, you hit it there. It was freedom, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean it's just there was so much. I mean, you know, we we grew up in in Thatcher era, so there wasn't, especially from being the Northwest, we were kind of especially, you know, liverpool was just ah, nah, let them deal with themselves. I mean, you know, it was a bad time for people that didn't have money and this was like you said, it was rebelling against the establishment. There was many nights, you know, going down dirt roads. You don't know where you're going to end up, especially leaving a party. You were just, you know, praying you could get home.
Speaker 1:It was.
Speaker 2:I mean it kind of ties in for me with like away days for football. It's going to all these different countries and that was part of the game was kind of a sideshow. It was getting there with your mates and I think, like the acid house parties was exactly the same. You'd go with the same four or five mates and you know, I, I still have the same mates still to this day back home, you know, and you just pick up where, where you left off, you just like how on earth did we get home that?
Speaker 2:one time that one time. You mean more than like 100 times. But how did you go from I mean obviously, going to the Acid House parties? Were you already friends?
Speaker 1:with Ian and some of the band. Before forming the band yes, I mean the four of us apart from Ian. Ian lived up the road in gloucester. The four of us went to school together, um, so we were all school friends. We'd all played in bands together with each other different bands but you know different combinations but the four of us were always kind of heavily involved in music in that local scene.
Speaker 1:I worked in a music shop in Gloucester, which was about 40 minutes up the road, but it was the big city. We were actually from these little villages in the Forest of Dean and I got to know Ian. Ian was in a band that was at the time. I thought they were really successful because they had a record out and stuff like that and I think they might have had a deal with Virgin. And I got really friendly with Ian. I says oh, ian, come down, check, we've got an idea, we've got a vibe for a band. And then Ian jumped on board. So we've known it. We didn't know each other for years, some of us a very long time, which is nice, I mean. The band happened really quick but we had been at it, you know, playing in church halls and sheds and barns for quite a while before that, but yeah.
Speaker 2:Was Ian like the, because he's the much older one, isn't he? So was he like the daddy, the daddy of the band?
Speaker 1:Definitely the most sensible out of all of us. Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? I mean, it's kind of. I guess these days he doesn't seem that older, but when back then, those few years make a hell of a difference, don't they? Yeah, he was sensible, he had a good, he kind of knew, he had knowledge of how to put things together musically. He's very good musically, you know, it's all right having a great idea and a vibe, but you've got to structure it and make it work and arrange it. And getting a song finishes quite a different business. And he had, he's got skills and had to write songs, which is exactly what we needed at that point. We were really good at, you know, dressing up in fancy dress clothes and jumping around on set, and you know telling everybody we're the greatest band in the world and you know creating a great vibe.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it was definitely a bit of meeting of minds and chemistry that made it work at the time when the record record executives you made them come to you, which I think is absolutely brilliant because you you'd built up a following and you know where you were and what's the best place for them to come see you is where you normally play, and I I think that that was another like kind of ballsy move that paid off for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean we were pretty ballsy at the time but we knew no different. You know what I mean. We didn't think it was that outrageous to invite you know Virgin Islands Nehemiah up to our local pub and these gigs we used to do in our local pub. We only did a handful of gigs, but they were wild. I mean, there'd be a little back room function room hold about 50 people and we'd cram about 300 people in there. People climbed through the windows, everybody. It was just mayhem and it was brilliant.
Speaker 1:But you know, I remember the record executives turning up and we still charged them I think it was £1.50 on the door to get in. You know what I mean. It was kind of and they were a bit like standing at the back, a bit scared, um, but yeah, it kind of worked in our favor, I think. But it's kind of. It's weird, though it's kind of come around a little bit where you hear about bands who do that and do it by their own rules, don't they? There's a band called. Do you know the right ons? Have you even come across them?
Speaker 1:no, not yet they're kind of they're, they've they're selling big gigs out and you know, selling records and charting even. But they've kind of they're they're selling big gigs out and you know, selling records and charting even, but they've kind of done it without any record label, but just doing it with fans and doing it their own way, and so it's a little bit like that, I guess.
Speaker 2:Um, and we didn't expect to get a record deal or get famous, so it didn't really matter really yeah, I think I think if there was like a band camp back in back in those days, it would have helped a lot of bands, because there are there's some very, very good bands that aren't signed yet there I mean especially living where I live in austin we have a massive music festival called South by Southwest.
Speaker 2:Tons and tons of English bands come, you know, and it's sometimes this is only like the you know 56 gig, but it puts them out there and obviously you know how, how it's so cutthroat this business. Know how, how it's so cutthroat this business you know. You have a smash one one year, then the follow-up doesn't do the job and you dropped. I mean it really is like it's got to be tough to. I mean especially you. You were in your early 20s when unbelievable came out um and Schubert dip. You know 90, 91. So you're like well, 22. I mean that's, that's still young in this business. And then to be like, but to the front of the queue and basically shoved over to America. And I mean for a 22 year old to just be like all right, you're going on tour in America. I mean, had you ever been to the US before that?
Speaker 1:Oh no, I mean, we did take it in our stride. Yeah, I haven't really thought about it much, dan, to be honest with you. But now you're saying it like that, I'm thinking, wow, that is pretty wild. You know, my kids just turning 18, I'm just thinking a couple of years I was touring the world and, you know, hanging out in jacuzzis with models and you know I had stuff. You know I wasn't really, but you know it's uh, we were young, yeah but how?
Speaker 2:how was that?
Speaker 1:if you remember those days like no, I don't, I remember I don't know. I remember I remember it being pretty wild. I remember partying. Things got interesting when I started hanging out with other bands. Yeah, they kind of showed me how to do it, which is really strange for you to say, but I was so young and so naive. But then on that first american tour we took pop elite itself with us for two or three weeks and just hanging out with them just thinking, oh my god, so what? You just get pissed in the morning and then you just go right on stage, then you party all night long. It's just like wow, so this is what you do. So, uh, yeah, that was the start of it really. But you know I had to be a little bit careful being the singer and that you know there was a bit of responsibility where the rest of the guys were really enjoying themselves, and I wish if I had my time again, I'd probably try and enjoy it a little bit more, I think.
Speaker 2:Was there any tellies out windows?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was tellies out windows. We once got. Do you remember that violin player? What was his name? Summit Kennedy. God, he's famous. He was one of these rock and roll violin players. He was signed to EMI. He went to an EMI conference I think it might have been in Austin, actually and he was notorious for getting really pissed. He wanted to be rock and roll, but he was a classical violinist Nigel Kennedy. Do you know? Does that name ring a bell? The name that, yeah, the name does ring a bell. We managed to persuade him to throw a telly out the window. Yeah, you gotta be done, hasn't it? Yeah, Clichés.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I mean the the good thing is you know you don't. Well, I mean, you do pay for it, because that's the thing that you probably didn't know about. Then you know, whatever your expenses are are coming out of what you're getting paid, right, yeah? Which which you know. I'm sure you know not a lot of young bands read the fine print back then.
Speaker 1:Yes, it means kind of nothing. All that five album million quid deal doesn't mean anything really. They can drop you at any point. As soon as you stop selling records, they'll drop you, and it took us ages. I mean, luckily we got to record a third album, but that third album kept us in debt for years. I'm probably still in debt now to EMI for that record. You know what I mean. But yeah, gosh, but there was a lot of money flying around back then. I don't think there's so much money now. Well, maybe people like Beyonce and stuff like that there is, but certainly just rock and roll bands. I think they kind of struggle. I mean, I think they might struggle to even pay themselves wages. Certainly, from my experience of touring recently, we always come away in not making any money, which is kind of strange, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It is, and it's wrong because you're the one that's basically doing all the hard work. You're the ones who are writing the songs. You're just getting a backing from a label and you know someone in a suit is getting paid millions while you get what it's. I know over here like 10 cents for an album. That's what you're making. I see that it's a joke. I mean it is. I mean I'm not a musician, but I've got friends who are and they tell me horror stories. They're exactly like you going. We still owe the record company.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We're never going to pay them back. I guess you know you can put that one down Like it's just people just think it's caviar champagne. You know private jets and it's not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because we've just announced free american dates and on the facebook feed I put a post up and everyone's saying why don't you come play florida? Why don't you come play all these other places? I'm just thinking because I've got to go back and go to work. You know what I mean. Getting three days away, coming away for a weekend in america, you know, is all we can kind of do because I've got to get back to work on monday morning. That's because, you know, and there's so many of my friends who are in bands now but have to have jobs, and I'm not complaining because you know I've had a good run at it, but it's that's the reason we're not out there all the time doing it well, plus america is so massive, you know it's not like you can get in on on a coach and drive three hours and you're in, you know, a different city like every night.
Speaker 2:I mean for Texas, where I am. It takes you 10 hours to get outside of Texas. It's insane, isn't?
Speaker 1:it.
Speaker 2:And I saw it on the thing too People, why aren't you coming to Boston? Why aren't you coming to Philly? Why aren't you coming to Boston? Why aren't you coming to Philly? Why it's like well, I, I, they, they think you know again it's. It's also based on fan fad as well. I would think you know how, how your albums have sold. You know you're not going to go to someplace in like Wisconsin. That you, you know you'll cause wisconsin. That you, you know you'll, because I'm sure you'll see a chart of like kind of how much your sales are. You're not going to go to a place that nobody's going to show up. So that's the thing, you know. You might have a couple of fans in in different areas, but it's tough to kind of navigate the us yeah, yeah it is.
Speaker 1:I mean, when we did it originally, we'd go out there for six weeks at a time and live on a bus, you know. But we could do that. We were young, we had energy and we didn't really need any money. You know what I mean? It's kind of just and we'd drive to a city, get up, do some press, go to the local record store, do a sign-in and do a meet and greet before the gig, meet the radio people, the press people, do the gig after the show party, get on a bus, drive to the next city and do it all again for six weeks. But you really had to work it and it was great because it was an adventure. But I couldn't do that now, I don't think.
Speaker 2:No, just listening to you has made me tired. There's no, there's no chance I'd be able to do that Like, even like when I come back home, you know, after flying for 10 hours, I'm done for the next couple of days. I can't imagine being on on a, on a. You know a coach for six weeks. Um, but you know a coach for six weeks. But you know, as we say, when we're young we've got all this energy, you know, and you're hanging out with your best mates.
Speaker 1:And you bounce back really quick. When you're young, you can have a big night out and bounce back, can't you? These days, though, you know, like you say, I've been in bed for three or four days on a big bender. Yeah and then I'll feel sorry for myself and cry myself to sleep in a fetal position.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just not as it used to be, is it? No, not at all. Out of like. You know your three albums, I think you've always said, said Stigma is the one that you've really liked, and I think that's what everyone did. What did you think was the boiling point? Was it just after the second album? Was it the record label going you need to make another Schubert dip?
Speaker 1:no, I think the lack of guidance was the problem. To be honest with you, someone turned around and says write some pop songs. It's okay to write pop songs and, you know, sell records. We're so up our arse about trying to be cool, um, at the expense of not selling any records, because stigma didn't sell any records. You know, people love that album and say, you know it out of all the emf, it's the classic and all that.
Speaker 1:But it certainly didn't have any hit singles, hit records on it and I think by the time we got to the third album, we just didn't have any vision. Nothing was coherent. It was like we didn't know what we were doing, wrote a completely wild third album that was a double album and it was. It was just all over the shop. There was nothing holding it together and I think that represented as we were as people as well, because we've kind of gone off and done our own things and, you know, got into different scenes and stuff. Sorry, that's bleeping away there. Darren's all right, yeah, um. So yeah, it fell over, it fell apart. You know, hindsight would have been an amazing thing. I wish we could go back and just see what was going on. But as it's fallen apart around you, you don't really notice it, do you?
Speaker 2:No, no, you know there's again. Loads of bands have done the same as what you lads have done. You know, got a hit first. Lads have done. You know, got a, got a a hip first album and then you know, I hit a roadblock or, like you said, the guidance isn't there. And a lot of these bands they do need someone to to kind of sit them down and just be like look, go write the songs that you know you can write. You know, don't go write the songs that you know you can write. You know, put the blinders on, Don't listen to any, don't. A lot of critics will say you know this isn't as good as Shuba Dip or Stigma, blah, blah, blah. But it's what you lads think you know.
Speaker 2:And I think if you start because at the beginning you know, and I think if you start because at the beginning you know, you're very like you had the hip-hop kind of side to you in the dance side and then you kind of had to me like a little bit the punk ethos, because you, you were doing it your way and yeah, like you said, you know, you kind of lost your way. But like, after the third album still being young as well and being dropped from the label must have been, you know, like a hammer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:I mean, financially we were okay because you know we had that massive hit which saw us okay for quite a while, so it wasn't like we were down on our luck, but very unfulfilled, you know.
Speaker 1:Just, you know, having a big bank balance and then having nothing to do apart from go out and hang out in camden and get off your face all day, it kind of wears a bit thin after a while. So I mean thankfully, I mean I know we were going to talk about Bentley Rhythm Ace, but that kind of came into my life just at the right moment and I got to tour the world again, do it all again, but this time without the responsibility of being a singer. I could just stand me on the keyboards and, just, you know, make acid house noises and still get up my face. Don't worry about that, it's just like. But you know, it was kind of quite a different scene and it was brilliant and I enjoyed that so much more, which is weird because it was nowhere near as commercially good, as big as EMF, but it was fun and that's what I needed really.
Speaker 2:So yeah, the big scene was obviously, you know, a little little off of the acid house scene. It was it for me. Uh, you know, I started to listen to, you know, john, obviously early Norman Cook, fatboy Slim, and it was raunchy like the breaks in it. You know, low fidelity, all stars Again, it was like a little punk to me as well, you know it was kind of saying yes, it out scenes a bit up your own ass.
Speaker 2:Now we're gonna do this big beat where it it's. It's like students a lot of students were into big beat for some reason. You know a lot of the the uni kids that I, I just I just loved it.
Speaker 1:It was just like again, you know it was fresh and it was new and it was a bit of a backlash against the house and the floor stuff, which I totally get. Whether it's aged that well is another thing. You know what I mean. If you go back and listen to those head driller records or fat boy slim and they sound a bit, because at the time it was kind of like it almost had like a 60s vibe, didn't it? It was almost sort of dumped, kind of yeah, this, it's strange. I don't think there's many acts that have lasted. No, really, I mean the chemical brothers, obviously, but they had them, you know, they were just next level, weren't they you?
Speaker 2:know who I thought would would last, with propeller heads and they kind of just, you know, went, went, I don't know, just went up. Wise Guys, I really liked as well. I mean obviously a lot of stuff that was on Heavenly. I would just eat it up. I mean it was just good, but yeah it just it fizzled out really quickly, didn't it?
Speaker 1:It did, didn't it? Yeah, it was a little scene, wasn't it, that came and went Great. Whilst we were in it, though, because, I mean, we used to go down the Heavenly Jukebox and funnily enough, I dug out because they did the Heavenly compilations, where they had loads of DJs. I think Carter did one, john Carter Monkey Mafia, but I was playing them to my son, and the other day this was only yesterday in the car actually, and I was thinking this doesn't sound quite that good. You know, I'm just going. What's going on here, you know? But yeah, music, that's what music. Posts have come and go, isn't it, you know?
Speaker 2:oh, it is. I mean it changes, you know. I mean a lot of the kids now, especially over here, they use the term EDM, which I just it makes me cringe. It's dance music, it's electronic dance music, come on, it's dance music. But yeah, it's just. Things have changed so much, especially social media.
Speaker 1:Like. It just seems like everyone needs to take their mobiles out while they're out, and I miss those times that stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know I don't want to be I. I just, I know right now I sound like that old fart who sits on in a rocking chair house telling people to get off his grass. Um, I, I just don't understand, you know. I mean, it's, it's their time. You know, I, I don't go out to shows that much and, like I said, you know, with the, with having a bring up four kids, uh, it's tough. And when I do go out, by that, by nine, ten o' at night, I want to come home. I'm just absolutely shattered. I don't know how people stay up past midnight these days, but it's just a different, different scene, especially, like you know. I mean, some of my favorite DJs are actually yours as well. Like the governor Andrew Weatherall yeah, absolute bliss he, he as well. Like the governor andrew weatherall yeah, absolute bliss he. He just knew how to put a set together. Um, he didn't need to throw his hands in the air.
Speaker 2:He didn't need to pose artistry yeah and and I just think right now we're going through this like I think you know it's, it's happened quite quickly the superstar djs, you know there's. There's three recorded sets which I just don't quite understand.
Speaker 1:That I mean, you know it's, it's fake like a visual thing as well, if you see, like I've been to a few festivals recently and the sound systems now are incredible. They never used to be sound systems like that in the 90s. But you say there's pre-worked out sets where all the pyrotechnics and the lights and everything's all synced in. I mean it's quite an experience. But it's like going to a theater, it's not really losing yourself to music, it's kind of losing yourself to, I don't know, an event, isn't it, I guess? But um, it seems all a little bit soulless.
Speaker 2:I'm sounding like the old man now and I don't know, it's a bit soulless well, I mean, it is when you see all these videos on like youtube and 80 of the crowd have the phones out. So it's the spectacle of it and you know, I, I think it's all right to to go and, you know, take a quick video here and there, a few pictures, but it's, it's in here. It should stay like that. Those are the moments and I mean like I, I just think, yeah, I think we are. We sounded like old farts we really are.
Speaker 1:And I mean have you done the battles with your kids yet, over technology?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I mean my eight-year-old. She wants a phone and I'm like at eight years old, what would you need with a phone? I mean, they already have iPads. I'm like you know, I go. When I was a lad.
Speaker 1:No, I noticed it with my youngest when he, as soon as he turned like I don't know, 12, 13, and he got that phone. That was it, man. Honestly, it was just like completely different person. It was just like, I know, sad and I've. You know that parents must see that all the time, but it was like what? And now I hardly see him. They're just sat in the room gaming or you know doing stuff. In all fairness, the oldest has discovered partying, and thankfully he has, so he's going out raving a little bit and coming in in the early hours. So I'm kind of proud of him for doing it, even though I should be like what are you doing? But you know, it's kind of, it's real, there's something that connection with the real world is really important. That there's something that connection with the real world is really important, isn't it? You know? I mean, kids don't have that now, do they, I guess?
Speaker 2:well, I mean, you just need to kind of be in your kids lives, that's that's the thing. No know what they're doing, and if they are kind of turn at a dark corner or whatever, have a word with them. You know, that that's the thing. I mean. I think these days, you are, you are, you've hit the nail on the head. The kid goes in the bedroom. He's, you know, playing fifa. Uh, he's on the phone constantly but nobody checks in.
Speaker 2:You know, and, and I think we, we don't have to be like best mates, but I think you have to be part of your kids lives, you know don't let social media ruin it, because you know, as you know, everyone has a twitter account but you get on twitter and you can say whatever you want on twitter because you're behind a keyboard. You know billy big balls says your album shite, you know, oh, have you listened to it? Oh, I don't need to listen to it, I just know it is. Oh, all right, well done there. You know, that's that's, that's not what, what, what life's all about. But you know, I do want to go back. Like you know when, when you are dropped from a label, especially again at an early age, did that have an effect on your friendships with the rest of the bandmates?
Speaker 1:I think we kind of drifted apart. Anyway, we were all sick of each other. You know, you don't, there's not many friendships that you go all the way through school and then like five, six years afterwards you're still hanging out, sharing hotel rooms together and bedrooms together and stuff like that. So you know, certainly I stayed in, I had closer friends in the band than others, um, but we kind of split up different ways and we all had our own. We had our own friends groups. Do you know what I mean? So I didn't really notice it. I mean they're still kind of my like, my brothers and that, but it's not like as intense as it was.
Speaker 2:So when, when did the, when did you finally go? You know I need to get a proper job.
Speaker 1:Well, me and my wife she wasn't my wife at the time we moved up to the Yorkshire Dales, so we got out of London. I did envisage having a nice retirement, just chilling. But then we had kids and I thought there's more to life and the best thing I ever did, because I was so lost and so, like, what do I do now in life, you know? And then 15, 20 years later I thought, right, I'm going to go back to university. So I went back to university and did a degree and got a teaching certificate and then just fell into teaching and honestly, it's kind of saved my life. Really.
Speaker 1:I would have just been a complete drunk and a mess and just like you feel, people you know it's hard, people who don't do anything, feel it might look absolutely brilliant, but your, your life, it's not, kind of it's a bit useless, isn't it? I mean I've got to be a little bit careful, I say because a lot of my friends are still professional musicians and like playing golf on an afternoon and stuff like that. But but you know, I get up and I go to work and it's so. It's good for your soul, it's so worthy and it makes you appreciate things much more Like this weekend we're going to go to Bearded Theory and we're playing a Saturday night with 808 State and then Orbital are DJing. And I'm just thinking today I've been in a classroom with year eights like I can get, but then on Saturday night I'm going to be lost in a field listening to some great dance music. So kind of you know it's working for me. Don't ask me what I'll be like on Monday morning.
Speaker 2:That's the only problem you know well, I mean, it's got to bring you back down to earth, obviously.
Speaker 1:And I've seen that some of your things saying, you know you're in the playground chasing, you know you can't do this like um, okay, anymore they've made now they don't even they just I don't know what they do now stick, but I kind of quite like it's taking me. It's taking me a long time to not be hardened to the way people can talk to you, but these kids can rip you to shreds and take the piss out of you and be really nasty and it's just like, oh, come on, it's quite funny, it's, it's good, it's um, it puts everything in perspective. Do you know what I mean thing? It takes you out of yourself a little bit, thinking you're not the only person in the world. So these kids, you're not relevant. So you, you know you mean nothing. You know what I mean, and kind of good what are the parents like with you?
Speaker 2:I mean on on, like you know, over here we have the the teacher parent night. Like I can't imagine, like there's got to be some some looking at you going I know I know who. I know he's the teacher, but I've seen him before. Do you actually get people?
Speaker 1:I used to 10 years ago when I started teaching, but now it's more grandparents we're getting old Darren, there's a few odd parents. It's kind of given me a nice easy ride in life having that massive hit, unbelievable, as kind of not open doors for me. But you know, people kind of love the novelty of it and, uh, you know it kind of makes you it's quite good, it's even. You know, all these years later it's still following me around and people are intrigued and you know they kind of like it. Yeah, and especially where I work in keith league, it's not like there's any other celebs around so I'd be as a c-rated celeb will do. You know what I mean? They kind of quite find it quite fascinating really.
Speaker 2:I just think it would be, especially as a I'd do a hometown gig there. I'd be like this is me.
Speaker 1:You know you lads have to like, listen to me just for one night, just for one night even if you don't like it it wouldn't mean anything to him, though, darren, honestly it wouldn't mean anything to him nah, they'd be vaping and on the social media going.
Speaker 2:Who is this plonker?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly, I can live with that, it's all right.
Speaker 2:I do want to talk about your brand new album, acadian Rhythms, which I did say at the beginning is absolutely excellent album. Um, and you co-wrote some of it with your, with your wife, which you know. Even, uh, I really my my favorites, uh, good morning, um, the circle continues. I just think I mean, this is your sixth solo album and I think it's your best by by far. Thanks, man, I appreciate that. I think, with with you doing also the live streams, yeah, it's added so much more to to it. Um, you know, it's like your little rave cave, which which I love.
Speaker 1:Um, but it's like your little rave cave, which which I love um, but it's like your trainer cave there. I can see those trainers behind you, mate oh god, yeah, yeah, I've got all my music. I'm not starting on those.
Speaker 2:You've got your music stuff in front of you yeah, yeah, well, me, me, uh, me dj set up and everything, so uh yeah I have it all all plugged in, but from, I mean, 2014 was your first one. Um. Obviously you took a break before you. You did that. Um is working solo like your favorite thing to do now, because you know it is like um yeah, I mean, I like it's quite liberating, but I do like mixing it up.
Speaker 1:I get bored very quickly, um, you know, at doing things like I make. I love making music. I don't like I love putting the music out, but I don't like all the promotion thing and then after a few weeks I'm just like let's just start writing some new music or let's do some EMF stuff, or let's go and do some belly rhythmized gigs and keeping it. Just keeping loads going on it's what keeps me occupied. Or even just getting in the studio here and just knocking out a cover and just doing a live stream of it. You know, it's kind of just keeping active. I like being creative, but yeah, it's good. I'm glad you like circadian rhythms. Um, but yeah, it's good, I'm glad you like circadian rhythms. It's the took took me many years to kind of work out how to make a good dance record, because it's quite electronic, isn't it? Like? I've been in iron for ages, do I make guitar records, do I make records with live drum kits, and but this was just completely electronic and really simple and I think that really I really enjoyed doing it.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean that even the, the instrumental ones are really really good, but I'm like it's not long enough. I want an extended edition.
Speaker 1:You know what that one? The circle continues. It was eight minutes to start with and I started cutting it and cutting it and editing it, so I have got an eight minute version. It was eight minutes to start with and I started cutting it and editing it, so I have got an eight minute version.
Speaker 2:I'll send you that if you want it it's just they're perfect songs for me, like jiving in the car or just listening while I'm working. It's just from start to finish, because there's loads of albums. Obviously I'm a music man that I'll listen to, but I don't listen to them all the way through.
Speaker 1:You know I was really conscious to make them, because I made it all the same bpm all the way through and I used all the same kick drum and, I think, all the hats and the claps, so there's not much variation in there. And I but I wanted to make an album, like you know, do you know technique by new order, that one that was IB for one, and that is one of those albums. You can listen to it from start to finish. It's like it's not like a journey, it's not, it's prog rock thing, but it's kind of just as a whole thing. It's brilliant.
Speaker 2:I've always wanted to. Maybe I'm getting closer. I think you nailed it. I mean, there's always room for improvement, but you know well, I mean, if there isn't, then I can give up. Yeah, and you don't want to do that? Because I'm telling you, I'll tell everyone about this album. Um well, you can get it on james james's band camp and I'll I'll put a link to it, uh, when this goes out. But yeah, it's from start to finish, mate. It's, it's just absolute class thank you, man.
Speaker 1:Thank you, and I must say though, I crammed that in between two emf albums, because it was an emf album. Just before that, and we've just released came out in january, another emf album called the beauty in the chaos, which I must get to you, um, which is out there doing the rounds as well at the moment. I mean, I'm glad, so I'm fine talking about my own solo stuff, because that's quite nice, because I'd almost forgotten about it myself. So it's lovely that you're kind of picking it up.
Speaker 2:But there, isn't it? Well, let let me do the the pr stuff for you. Um, you got a job. I mean you've done so well. I mean, like again, like you, the social media aspect has really helped musicians. It's helped my podcast to get it out there to people. But just the the again. Go back to your live streaming. You know, doing the cure, doing the new order songs, I I was just, I'm just loving them because there's no pressure on you to to do anything, you're just having fun. I love how you. There's a, there's one where you kind of do one early in the morning when you oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I love that you're just like. You know me, the kids aren't even up yet that I'm, I'm playing, yeah, yeah, that's us, isn't it?
Speaker 1:it's a lot easier than going out and doing gigs because, uh, we live in the middle of nowhere, we've got no neighbors, so we can make loads of noise. And, funny enough, we got this, this internet provider who put um what's it called it fiber octave in it. Is it fiber octave? So the internet in this house, even though it's in the middle of nowhere in the yorkshire dales, is like the fastest internet you'll ever come across. So I could do like live streams and uploads really quick. You, you know where it's like. You know some people might struggle. Um, that was a game changer, fiber octaves.
Speaker 2:There you go. You're PNR in them all, but it is. I really enjoy, enjoy your, your live streaming and um, a quick novelty thing is your duck races.
Speaker 1:Where did that come from. It was for the kids, wasn't it? It was for the kids when they were babies, because we've got a river you can't really see Behind me. There's a river in the back of the garden, but yeah, it was for the kids. And then kids, and then me and Rach just kept it going. We're just suckers for it, aren't we? It's our excuse to have a few afternoon ciders and race ducks. Do you know what? I forget that it goes out there and people actually watch this shit. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:It's like Well, it brought me back to being a kid. A kid again. Everyone's had a ducky, everyone's put it down down in a puddle or a a stream or something. So it brought me back and then when you, uh, you had the poll to uh name the, the purple one, I do believe, was the last one, I think I put one in there Purple Disco Duck, but it didn't win. Oh well, yeah.
Speaker 1:Was it. Grandmaster Duck or something. No, duckmaster Flash, I can't remember it was something. We called it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, something like that. But yeah, I just think putting stuff out there and you know, just have it, that's. Yeah, I just think putting stuff out there and you know.
Speaker 1:That's what you have to do on the internet. You have to be very careful where, because you want to sell records but you've got to put a lot of good, nice content up as well. Where you're not, Because if you just put like I've got a new record out, people just you don't get the engagement. But if you like, put a duck race up or a silly cover or something like that, you kind of build an audience. Not that I'm no expert or anything like that, but it's um, it's interesting when you see even big bands just posting releases and stuff and they don't get any like, come back off the audience so. But then you put it's always like you put a picture of a cat up and it gets thousands of likes. It's that weird thing, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It is. I've tried to understand the algorithm of YouTube. I'm still trying to figure it out. You can have an interview with the biggest superstar on the planet and it has a couple of thousand views. You put a cat playing the drums and it gets a million hits. And well done, cat.
Speaker 2:It's the world we live in. I like it because you know from what I watch of you, you don't take yourself too seriously and I think that's what we should be doing. I think there's too much going on in this like bad stuff going on in this world. You turn the telly on, you listen to the news. It's just bad, it's horrible. So it's great. Where you can. You know you can have a laugh. Yes, I mean, it's a bit of a scapegoat. Yeah, 100, I mean. Yeah, I just. You know everybody's day-to-day is different, obviously, but you know, if somebody watches, is having a bad day and watches your little duck thing and has a smile, it's done the job right. Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's what it's about, mate, um, but any, I know you're touring the states in july, um, are you gonna do be doing the festivals this summer?
Speaker 1:uh, yeah, starting this weekend we've got one, and then there's a few scattered ones around like nothing really big. I would do best of all. That's a nice one, yeah, but like most of the summer is taken up with traveling somewhere, which is nice because we do it as a family, so we just rock up as a family and it's kind of that's. Yeah, we haven't done any summer holidays for quite a while because the festivals kind of take up all those weekends over the summer which I have to cram them in. Um, but yeah, there's like a nice one in ireland with a cult actually, which I'm really looking forward to. Um, interesting stuff. We're quite lucky that we get to choose to do interesting stuff. You know, we don't have to go and play.
Speaker 1:I was going to say liverpool on a tuesday night, but that's, that's probably going quite good, isn't it? Let's say Watford on a Tuesday night. Yeah, it's just like you know, nice things. We had a wicked gig in Liverpool the other day. Actually, I can't remember what the place was called. It was a new venue, great. I haven't been to Liverpool for a while. It's such a great city.
Speaker 2:I mean it's always been very, very good, like musically. But like there's so many new places you know popping up, like, if you have a chance, try and go to 303.
Speaker 1:303,. That sounds good. Is that a club or a venue?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a venue. It's actually where Andy Weatherall played one of his last gigs. Oh, wow, played four and a half hours, wow, yeah, you can look up it. Look up, uh, on youtube. It's just, it's a fantastic venue. It doesn't have all the silly little lasers and all that. It just has a couple of lights because, you know, the main attraction is the dj or the live band, how it should be. But yeah, um, yeah, if you ever back there, defo, go, go to that. But so are you going to be doing the summer festivals as emf or as yourself, or a bit?
Speaker 1:uh, no, just as emf and a few belly rhythm shows. Um, I have not. I kind of shy away from going out as a solo artist. I find it really difficult. Me and rach will do stuff occasionally, like last weekend there was like some lyric djs playing in lancaster and we rocked up and did a little 15 minute set. But I just it's quite hard doing it, it's quite. It's yeah, it's quite, it's difficult. I prefer emf is quite an easy thing because I can just stand up and grab the mic and start singing. When it's your own solo stuff I've got, it's just a little bit too stressful for me work, getting everything going and stuff.
Speaker 2:So, um, yeah, emf and belarith mason for the summer ah, well, nice, well, um, hopefully, uh, you know it'll be nice weather for you. No, no mud sliding or anything during the festival season. How is it when you do take a break with EMF and then you see some of the older bands, especially? I saw, you know, saw Jesus Jones, yeah.
Speaker 2:Seeing those lads again, or being in you know, the musicians area at festivals and just going, wow, I haven't seen these lads in years. It's got to be like because they're still together, which I find you know another band that I grew up with listening to. I just find it so interesting that the lads have stuck with it. You know, maybe a few personnel changes here and there, but the core's still there. How is it to see all these lads again?
Speaker 1:Well, it's lovely. I mean, they're all my friends and peers. I mean we've all grown up. I've kind of got some really strong bonds with all the people, from jesus jones carter potlitzer, just because we were similar sort of, we did a similar job. You know we were in the same job. Um, I love it. I mean, it's not like, why shouldn't, shouldn't you? You know, it's kind of what you do, isn't it? And so I'm not like I never look at anyone and go, well, that's a bit sad. You know it's kind of what you do, isn't it? And so I'm not like I never look at anyone and go, well, that's a bit sad. You know, maybe when steps get together or something like that, I'm thinking well, but you know, being in a rock and roll band's the greatest thing in the world and it's why wouldn't you want to do it, you know? You know, why wouldn't I want to come and travel to austin and play in a rock and roll bar and do that? It's life, isn't it? It's great, it's great.
Speaker 2:Thankfully, I can still do it One hundred percent. Well, james, we're already coming up to an hour. This is what amazes me about like these podcast chats. They just go by so quickly and I get to, you know, I get to hear people's stories and I can't thank you enough for like coming on and, and you know, giving me a better part of your life thanks to have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I'm really pleased, I really enjoyed it and, please, everyone, go to james's band camp, and it's jamesatkinsmusicbandcampcom, and you'll find not just his music but he's got some really great t-shirts as well. Um, so please go check that out, um. And uh, if you're around in the us, um, he's got three dates in july. I think what I definitely know one's Detroit.
Speaker 1:I don't know the other, detroit, and then Brooklyn, june, june, the 20, 20, 21st, 22nd, 23rd, I think. So yeah, that's, that's not long next month.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. Um, hopefully you know we we won't see you on the on the news, throwing a telly out the window and trying to act like you're 18 again.
Speaker 1:Watch this space. Yeah, sounds like a challenge. That does, darren. Oh yeah, come on.
Speaker 2:I want to turn the telly on in a month and see you getting arrested and putting a paddy in being a naughty boy again.
Speaker 1:You're on, you're on, I'm going to do it.
Speaker 2:It. It's been an absolute pleasure, mate. I appreciate it. Um again. Please, everybody like and subscribe, and we'll see you next time.
