The Liverpool Connection Podcast
The Liverpool Connection Podcast
Football and Music 1:1 with Fran Doran of Red Rum Club
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Hi, this is Chris Hawkins and you're listening to the Liverpool Connection podcast. Hi everyone, and welcome to the Liverpool Connection podcast. This is my football and music one-on-one episodes where I bring on a musician who obviously likes football. It's pretty easy I'm Daz.
Speaker 1:I met this lad I think about two years ago now. He came to South by uh, I was hanging out with jamie webster and it was actually the first time that I'd heard the band. I really, really enjoyed it. So, uh, I've followed your career the last last couple of years, um, but they got a brand new album out called, uh, western approaches, and they just did a massive, massive hometown gig in liverpool, which, um, I'm sure we'll talk about.
Speaker 1:But I've got the lead singer from red rum club, uh fran, coming on today to uh talk about liverpool football club, uh, what it means to him and uh, about the band. So, uh, fran, welcome to the pod. Thanks for having me, daz. So I'm just going to delve right into what was Little Fran all about. You know, when did you really, you know, start like going to match and you know really supporting him, because I started at six when my granddad took me and, you know, at six years old you really aren't like comprehending what's going on, especially not in the Kop, and then watching on the pitch. So how was it for you?
Speaker 2:Well, the first love of football for me wasn't Liverpool football. To be honest, don't worry, I'm not going to say Everton, I'll just spit you off. It was actually Bootle Football Club. My family run Bootle or have a lot to do with Bootle Football Club. My dad, I think, has held every position that could be manager, centre-forward chairman, secretary, treasurer, president and all the family were involved, my granddad. To the day he died he was involved in the club. He got a special recognition by the FA for like 60 years service. He restarted Bootle. The original derby in Liverpool on Merseyside was Bootle vs Everton and he started. He restarted Bootle when it went out of business and it became Lankton and he dropped out the Football League and then my granddad worked on the docks and got all the docks together and restarted the team. So really it did have a hiatus but really Bootle is sort of older than Liverpool Football Club. If you go to the Football History Museum you see the first. I think it's the first six professional leagues, the First Division and Second Division. Bootle are there, bootle and Everton are there and Arsenal and Ville and teams like that.
Speaker 2:So that was my thing and then I started playing when I was about six or seven, I was pretty cool. Probably before that, I can't remember, but before that I was probably around football so much just kicking it when we were going up to Bootle and running around the pitch and whatever. When I started playing like competitively and got myself into a team, I was quite good. I played for Liverpool, I played for Liverpool, I played for Everton, I played for Wrexham. So then, so as soon as so, yeah, around six was the time when it just exploded and I remember it must have been around that time I went to my first ever game Tottenham. Davide Ginola scored for Tottenham. We beat them 2-1. Patrick Berger scored and Owen scored, and that was the first time I was ever in the Kop. Yeah, and then it was just yeah, I probably got two loves Bootle and Liverpool.
Speaker 1:To be honest, yeah, so what happened with the football? With you then?
Speaker 2:So I was playing six, seven, eight and nine. I was playing for Wrexham and now and then I was playing every week for Wrexham and now and then I was playing for Everton, I think Liverpool. I've done a few training sessions with Liverpool and he said I think they'll give you a call or something like that. So I think I played in some friendly games and stuff like that. But then I got a bone disease as a child in my hip, a thing called Parth's disease and it's sort of like a child's version of arthritis, where your bone and joints sort of wears away a little bit. The cartilage wears away and because you're a kid it'll sort itself out. But it's time to have an operation to sort of make the shape of my hip okay for recovery.
Speaker 2:And I had two years off football. I was at bar for three months. I was in a wheelchair for three months. I was on crutches for six months and couldn't really play. I had two years off football. I was in bed for three months. I was in a wheelchair for three months. I was on crutches for six months and couldn't really play for about two years. So I'd come back. But then it was around that time nine, ten, eleven.
Speaker 2:You move to like open age rather than five-a-side kids football. It moved on a little bit and I'd come back and Some of the other lads. I was still good but some of the lads physically had developed more. I sort of just missed those two years. So I came back and played and just played on local teams and whatever else. Then I played to an all-right level, played for Bootle's reserve team. If I wasn't in the band getting drunk every Friday night I probably could have earned a couple of quid, 50 quid on a Saturday to go and play semi-pro or something. But life took me in a different direction. I chose women and beer.
Speaker 1:Well, I think if you ask most lads in Liverpool what they want to be when they grow up, they'll be like a professional footballer or a musician. So it's either one or the other. They don't go. You know, I want to be a plumber.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, the moment, musician. So it's either one or the other. They don't go. You know, I want to be a plumber. Yeah, the moment I picked the guitar up and started to take music seriously, I remember asking me one for a guitar for christmas. It's probably coincidentally I don't know whether I was consciously aware of this, but it's probably when I realized that I wasn't going to be gerrard, I was like, okay, maybe football isn't for me then, because up until then it was. You know, come back after the long stint out and stuff. And then I was like, oh yeah, they're a little bit better than me and they never used to be. Maybe, maybe I won't be on Liverpool's books. And then, okay, find another way of making a million quid. And really I'm still waiting.
Speaker 1:I think I was doing all right like playing, playing football. And then, like over like a summer period, I didn't really grow and the the lads I was playing against grew and they were a lot more physical and I was like, oh man, I'm getting the shit kicked out of me. Yeah, I didn't like it and and but there was just nothing I could do. I could I could just tell like it's just not going to happen, it's just going to be Sunday league. But yeah, I think I was a rock star, for like one day my dad had a Gibson, and this is when I was like eight years old and I took his Gibson in the garage and I painted it white.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, With his permission.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:I just took it and I didn't like the colour of it. It's one of those where you're doing your hair. I was doing my hair like Rockabilly style, looking in the mirror of it. You know it's one of those where you know you're doing your air. I was doing my air like rockabilly style, you know, looking in the mirror doing that and you know twanging. And then I was like I don't like the colour of this and it's a beautiful red and I just I mean I look back and like it was a beautiful guitar. But I went in the garage and I just took the household paint and I did it every last inch of it.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, I wouldn't forgive you there.
Speaker 1:I still don't think my dad's forgiven me. I mean, I wouldn't forgive my kids if they came in here and spray-painted me chainers. No yeah, yeah, I might be taking them on a road trip and dropping them off somewhere. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, that's a no, no yeah, yeah yeah, I mean for for, but I'm feel for you. Like you know, going going as a kid is a lot different than, like you know, like I, I went with my granddad, but then you start going with your mates and you know it's the adventure, isn't it?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's, it's school. To be honest, I think it's school for it's school for young lads. It's school for teenagers. It like teenagers, because it's the first time you sort of stand side by side and have to grow men and have to sort of be, have the courage of your convictions. You can no longer sort of you know, throw your chest about and sort of use your authority like you were able to in school or whatever like that. It's the school of hard knocks. Well, it's not the school of hard knocks, but it's a bit of a rite of passage. You need to learn how to behave in environments where there's beer involved and there's pumped emotions, understanding yourself and your limits and doing everything you can to sort of like, be socially aware and be, as well as having a good time. Well, you know no one, no one, when a good time might, might become a bad time. Is, is the, is the and then also the camaraderie, the social aspect, aspect of it, of like.
Speaker 2:Um, it's very rare that we get it nowadays, because living a very individualistic life of like everyone's just on the phones and living in small, like sort of small family. Whoever you live with is probably the person you see the most or speak to the most and like you haven't got, like you know, huge community centres or like feelings like that anymore. So being able to bring lots of people together is like you probably learn a lot about humankind and what matters in life to people, because when you go to you go to game and sing with a couple of thousand people and then come home and you're like that made me feel better. So you know why is that? A little bit, regardless of what colour your team are in or anything, you need someone to shout for and you need people around you to be a part of something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I had a guest on the other day, Rohan, and he's bipolar, and he was just telling me that Anfield is his therapy, because he can go be amongst people and just not say a word and just listen, you know, and he's like that's my therapy. But I think, like with the old boys too, like going if you got out of line, they'd let you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like going if you got out of line they'd let you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think I missed those days, like you know. Obviously, living over in the states, you know I I used to go on a regular basis um to anfield. I miss it. It's just just walking up to the ground, know, smelling the nasty hot dogs, just smelling. I mean even like like it's. It's so weird, like coming back home. I was at the Newcastle match in January and I'm I'm from Thornby, so you know I go down to central and the smells of the city and even like the piss smell of central stations, bogs, it's like I'm home.
Speaker 2:I know it's a weird it's a weird thing but like the justice. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, my state is all the smells, you know from from you know the pubs, just from the people, just from what's going on. I just miss it.
Speaker 2:I know it's a weird thing. Do you feel like that's sort of do you become a different person or do you just slip back into what you were, like that sort of thing? Because we're always people of our environments, aren't we? And you'd have to say it in front of your kids and you'd have to different way in front of your kids, you know, and you're after a different way in front of in a pole ball or at the match or whatever. Do you just slip back into what you, who you were, like, sort of thing?
Speaker 1:I do. Yeah, like it's so weird, like the. The first thing is like, when I'm around my mates and my family, the accent stronger because I mean, I've been over there a long long time, you know, and I've still got me, me twang yeah it's just that something clicks in me that I, I'm just, yeah, it's. I smile a lot more when I'm back home. Yeah, yeah, it's just well. Maybe it's because I smile, because I'm only there like once every couple of years yeah it is, but I miss it.
Speaker 1:Like I said, like just you know, walking on the dock, the smell of the, the Mersey, it's just something that just brings me, brings me back home, and even just like being on the trains, because there's one train in Austin to get you from to downtown. It's not like the trains back home, because at least these trains show up on time. The trains back home are just like, it's like Russian roulette.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You're hoping it shows up. Most of the time it's, you know, like Mersey Rail is just, it's not great, is it? The whole of England, the rail's terrible. When I came home, you know, I got into manchester and ordered, you got a ticket to get off the plane, get straight on the on the chain to lime street ready to go. You know, after being 10, 11 hours on a plane, you just want to get home. And then cancellation.
Speaker 1:I'm like why, uh, I don't know, it's like that's not the answer I want on your business, almost. But yeah, it's, we are, we're creatures of habit and I just think you do, you, you step back in that zone, you know, and just just being around, like I said, match going red, you just it is the way it is, you know, yeah, yeah, I feel like a teenager again. Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm in my 50s, you know, and I still like when I go to a match, I still have goosebumps, I still like you know it's again walking up the steps and then, especially on, you know, nighttime kickoff under the light.
Speaker 1:There's nothing like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's ridiculous. It's in your blood, isn't it it like ignites something in you especially.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always tell people like you know over here, like if you, if you go, don't just go to a match, spend a few days in Liverpool, like you know, like take in the city. I think a lot of people like just go in and out. They go to the match, you know, might go to the pub before and afters, but that's all they do, and then they're back on the train or you know they in a cab back to the hotel and then off and I'm like spend some time there.
Speaker 1:No yeah, taking the city, go to the karaoke bars.
Speaker 2:I've travelled. I've travelled quite a lot with the band and obviously our industry, our business, is night time sort of party going, sort of unsociable hours if you're talking about working, and I've been to a lot of places. We're about to go on our fifth tour of the USA. We've been to Austin so many times. We've been to probably every place that you'd say that's a big, maybe not like the Ibiza or something like that. But I've been to a lot of cities in the UK and in the US and not one of them have ever matched. I mean South by Southwest, great and whatever. But I haven't been to Austin when it's not been on. Oh sorry, still like what we were in and I'll play the show.
Speaker 2:As far as the nightlife is concerned, as far as the pubs and the restaurants, pubs and clubs after six o'clock, there's nowhere better. I'm yet to experience a better place. Obviously there's better clubs. You go to Ibiza, you go to the Super Clubs or whatever, or you go to Miami and you can be on the beach and all stuff like that, but you can I always use this phrase and it's.
Speaker 2:You could start at the cathedrals at the top of the city and walk downhill until your feet got wet in the River Mersey every day for a year and you'd never have the same night. You'd never lack a pub to drink in and you'd always meet a friend on the way. It's like you could have 365 totally different nights. You might not enjoy one or two of them, but you'd still be able to come away thinking I've experienced 365 totally different just by turning left or turning right and going into a slightly different route or a different pub. It's something. It's a great export of ours, even though you can't export your nightlife, but being known for it, I would honestly welcome anyone to come, because once you get a feel for that, it's hard to replicate anywhere else. I've found nowhere can a city centre give a buzz and you can have a good night like you can here. To be honest, it's special and that's not biased.
Speaker 1:I've been everywhere, been everywhere you should work for the Liverpool Tories and Borg, get everybody over there and have a t-shirt when the band falls through, I'm ready.
Speaker 1:You've got yourself, I mean the Cavern Club everybody should know the Beatles and stuff. It must feel especially coming from Liverpool to be able to get on the wall of you know, like that's the wall of fame. I mean you know because you've been around since 2016 and you know you've been plugging away and does that I mean for the Liverpool band, like I'm trying to say like not that you've like made it, like you know superstardom, but when you get you know on the wall of fame, like that's got to make you feel like so proud.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because you're in esteemed company.
Speaker 2:Yeah esteemed company. Yeah, and it's probably it's like your motives for being in the band are motives for doing what we do, or forever change. Or when you first start the band, it's just to be the guy on stage. You're trying to get a bit of attention and maybe a girl's attention and maybe a few free drinks and a night out with your mates. Then you move on here, say then you want to sort of prove yourself a little bit and say you want to write some songs and yeah, I've got an art. And then you move on here. Then you want to sort of prove yourself a little bit and say I want to write some songs and yeah, I've got an art. And then you get a record deal that may be another thing, and then you want to go and play a festival and be on stage in your sunglasses, like in Glastonbury, and then, yeah, go on a UK tour.
Speaker 2:Like always, your motives change and change, and change. But we've reached a point now where we were just like we just had to, we've done all that. I don't want to be big headed there, but we had done all that and we were, we were comfortable with it. We were like, okay, yeah, we've done, well, there, we can do go and do that again. We were never out of our depth and within the city you start to feel like especially when you've done like three albums or four albums now, but at the time it's like three albums when we first started feeling like this legacy because started coming to to probably everyone does when they're like 30 or than that, like reach, we're all, I'm 30 and some of the lads, um, just turned 30 legacy and what you leave behind is sort of important.
Speaker 2:Two or three of the lads have got kids and stuff and and you know when, when, when we're dead and gone to have to be able to have people still talk in our city. Talk about, oh, remember red run club, yeah, they would go badly poor band with you in the same way we talk about it or our parents tell us about bands that they used to see like. So getting a brick on the wall was like, probably a representation of that of like someone. So you of someone. 10 years down the line, when we all hate each other and I've been divorced three times and bankrupt and someone's living in India and whatever else is going on, someone will be like remember them, they were good, that was a good band, wasn't it? They played a good show.
Speaker 2:So it was a big tick and it's quite strange, really, because it was the week we played the huge arena show and after it, I think we all felt a bit empty. We were for about a week you usually do when you finish a tour, but this one was a special, like, okay, where do we go from here Now? Like we'd really thought past this point. You know we never. We were like, okay, we've got that, and then we play the arena, the big show, and then, oh no, we've, we've achieved everything, but we still got the hunger to do so.
Speaker 2:We we've probably spent the next couple of the last couple of weeks trying to work out where we go now and thankfully we've got america coming. We fly out to america and on tuesday, but thankfully, thankfully, the world's like sort of opening up to us and be like okay, we're a big band in Liverpool and the UK following Super. All right, let's go and sell a show out to New York Then then then okay, there's our next thing, you know, let's go and get or is it the Paving Stones in LA, the Walk of the Walk of.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's the next one, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like how do you top your hometown gig, I mean selling out and you're in front of your fans and then maybe you come over there and you only play to a couple of hundred. And you know, maybe you come over there and you only play to you know a couple of hundred. How does that like in a band like you go from like this high to like you kind of feel like you start not starting over again, but you've got to keep on, you know working hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a bit of a rocket. It a bit of a wake-up call in a great way, though not like, oh my god, we've got to do it. It's like, um, right, there's work to do, there's work to be done, let's get our teeth into this, you know let's. Let's roll our sleeves up, let's go with the odds that we're to the odds of advantage this time of well, we've got an extra three or four years of experience. So what worked and what didn't work? We're not going round the houses. Let's be really efficient in what we do here, and we're a much better band now. So we're hoping things move a lot quicker in America than they did in the UK. Like you said, 2016, didn't get signed until 2018, released an album in 2019. Hopefully, we'll cover a lot more ground, um, in three years in america now, with that experience of the uk behind us. So, yeah, it's, it's. It feels like um.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes I'm don't want to say it gets boring. You can get complacent, preaching to the converters over here. When everyone knows you and you, you and it knows all your songs. You've got to go over there and play through the room. Half of them have probably just been dragged there by someone who's seen us online. You've got to win them over. There's work to be done, but it's motivating. That's what it is.
Speaker 1:It's like talking to Jamie and you know, with fingers with Jamie, I can relate to his songs. You can move most, you know scousers do, most people in England do, but does it relate over here? You know, I think that's one of the big things like not that he was worried about. I mean, you know you get on stage and you do your thing, but will Americans, kind of you know, feel the same way? Will they get your lyrics? The same, I mean for you you make some, like you know, anthem songs as well. You know, just like, get your hands in the air, let's party basically. Get your hands in the air, let's party basically. But like for your writing, because you know each album obviously has to be a bit different, like, who's the main? Are you the main writer in the band?
Speaker 2:No, tom the guitarist is my cousin. He's usually the guy who comes in with the idea, the nucleus, the thing that we all build around, and that thing might just be a lyric one line, or it might be a melody, or it might be a complete song, and so I've got this full song and then usually then me and Michael, I'll sort of add my lyrical thing, if Tom's like it's about this thing and can we maybe. And then I'll go well, I've got words about that, can we maybe merge them? And I'll try and make it a little bit more personal to me, and then Mike will sort of musically arrange it and then we'll work. Then it'll sort of become we'll put the meat on the bones, sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I come in with the idea of the song and go, this is my idea, but Tom's a whiz, he churns them out, he really does. I come in with one thing and Tom's got. Well, I've got these five. He's. He's a really talented songwriter and he's really took it upon himself to. That's how he sees his role in the band. He goes at it. I don't think I don't know. You know what I mean. And he's really like he goes at it.
Speaker 1:I don't think I don't know any better than that so I mean you, you know I've read some reviews and and Gerard's a pigeonhole and I think that's really good. You know, I've read, like you know, the band's a bit like Arctic Monkeys with the Zootons thrown in, and I'm like you know, I listen to your music, like I said, and it's really good that you're not in like a so-called genre. You know, like the indie stuff, people just like to put labels on bands.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't stand that you know, and we've suffered from that in in, like the music industry and the press, where they obviously need to be really efficient in what they're doing, or the you. We need to be really um clear on what we are. And in boardrooms, or like when lineups, festivals getting decided, or in press officers where they go, there's this problem with the local regiment. Okay, what are they like? You know, if you have to spend five or ten minutes explaining what we're like rather than just doing indie, indie rock bands, then it, then it just you. You lose the, you lose the interest, you lose the interest, you lose the wind, or you, or because they don't take a risk on it, because you can't, because they can't quite place you. You know what I mean, and that's not our fault, that's their fault.
Speaker 1:They're like okay, well, that's not really a genre, so that is their, I don't know. Ah, it's 100% a good thing not to be labelled. I just think too many bands, like you know, are they the next Lars? Are they the next Coral? There doesn't have to be a next any of them, because there's only one Lars, only one Coral, only one Jamie Webster, only one Red Rum Club.
Speaker 1:I just think it's, yeah, pigeonholing stuff gets on my last nerves. You know, I'm just, you are who you are and play how you are. So I mean, with your albums, like for me, you know, when I go see somebody live, that's when I really know, really know like what kind of band they are. Because when you're in the studio, um, you know like I, I dj, like house music and stuff, you, you can make it sound perfect. You know, yeah, with digital, you know digital, that when you're in front of an audience, it's raw, it's, you know, five lads just giving it their all. That's when I know, like I'd never seen Jamie, like Jamie, live before until South by and I was right up close and I was like Jesus Christ, this lads damn good and same with you as well.
Speaker 1:I was like it's nothing like I've heard before and I've heard like um, like Mexicana over here. So yeah, mexicana music is massive over here, and like music, cause, you know, live in Texas but it's. It's just when, when you hear a band just just hit it from the first song to the last and you go home just still ringing in your ears. You know that like a good ringing and I think that's that's the mainstay of, I think that's the mainstay of like what, what you want to do? I know touring can be a big, massive pain in the ass. You know everybody thinks it's champagne and caviar, but no, it's not. It's like you said, it's like stinky socks you know, everybody has a few.
Speaker 1:You know, maybe one of the lads has got you know sick on the bus and you're just like, oh no, it's not, it's not like that at all. And and too many people, I think these days, with the auto-tune and how pop music is like all right, you've got to jazz a certain way, you've got to sing a certain way, this is how you've got to talk. You know, with Usela it's just you are who you are and I think that's why I think you'll just get better and better and better is because you just keep to yourselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's for one being real, but it's also if you try and pigeonhole and if people like sort of want you to be something, it's like objectifying the subjective.
Speaker 2:Art and music is subjective, so like everyone should have their own opinion on it and it should be totally sort of free and fluid in order to for us, as artists, to be able to go there and go there and come back and like, if we want to be indie bands for a minute, we'll be an indie band for a minute, we'll be mexican, we'll be mexican, like we will go there and do that. But if you simplify it and people who not people who don't work in music, because a lot of them do but if you want to objectify it and pitch it on, like, okay, that's you and that's them and the user, they're over there and you do that thing and the user that and the user that like it's objectifying it, it's making a trying to make a science out of art and it that doesn't work. There's no science to it. There's no rhyme or reason to why some an artist is good or a song is good, so why try and like, define it somehow?
Speaker 1:so, like when you first started with um, I always like to ask, like especially lead singers, was it were you pushed to the front or were you like, hey, I'll be the lead, because I mean it is a massive responsibility, because you are like I mean kind of the look of the band. You know, they see you first.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the story goes we got together and this was pre-Joe, pre-the Trumper. We got in recording in a studio with Rich Turvey, who'd done the last album, and we were 16, 17. And he'd only just come out of university before he'd done like Cortinas and Blossoms and all those, before he'd hit the big time. And we were just, we were going to be a band with three lead singers. We were going to do like an Eagles thing and have like a big harmony thing.
Speaker 2:But I played guitar too at that time and Tom and Michael were better guitarists than me and luckily, when I sang in front of Rich, everyone went in, sang their bit and I think I was last to go in and sing. I sang one of the verses and Rich was like no, fran, you're the lead singer. Like the other two were like what verses? And Rich was like no, fran, you're the lead singer. Like the other two were like what? And I was like no, there's three lead singers. He was like no, you've got a better, like sort of the recording voice a little bit more distinct or something.
Speaker 2:Not a better voice, because Tom and Mike are actually, if you're coming down to pitching and musical know-how, they're probably better than me. But I don't know, maybe that's what that's why you sort of picked me to go like you know you should be the lead singer, because it wasn't perfect. Um, and then so I was then the singer from that day. We were like, okay, they thankfully, they took the words for it and I think they were happy playing guitar and doing back and back on vocals um, and then it must have been about six months later they took the guitar off me and they were like no, you just dance around, because you can't play guitar very well and we're better than you and we need, like, just dance around and be the cheerleader as well. Okay, and I'm still trying to master that bit yeah.
Speaker 1:Trying to master that bit. Yeah, so we have to talk about you know again, the hometown gig, Rehearsing for it. I mean, how long did you rehearse, Like a week before? Just to get everything nailed down.
Speaker 2:Well, someone asked this We'd been on tour for two. We had a two-week tour where we had two days off. In those two weeks we were playing four nights. Four nights on the bounce, a day off, four nights on the bounce. There are four nights on the bounce. So now for two weeks before then we practiced like an hour set. We probably practiced on the set three or four times, let's say. Then we played it every night for two weeks.
Speaker 2:Then we added half an hour's worth of songs with a string section and we ran that one and a half hour set without the strings twice One on the Wednesday, one and a half hours set without the strings Twice, one on the Wednesday, one on the Tuesday, once on the Wednesday, and then that was it. It was like just ran through it twice Because we were pretty sharp with it anyway. We had what the strings were going to play. So in our ears we had like a digital version of what the strings were going to play. So we knew all cues and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:We ran it twice and that was it. We were ready when we got to the, when we got to the sound check, the strings were all there, all the string players were there. So we just ran them past once and we're like, yeah, everyone. So we just ran them past once and we were like, yeah, everyone, okay, yeah, that was it. It was just like very, I'd like to say. We were like no, we were away, hammering away and blah, blah, blah Like we keep ourselves really fresh and ready to go, sort of thing.
Speaker 1:Well, was it like? I mean, especially in your hometown gig, you know, were you shitting it, especially in your hometown gig? You know were you were you shitting it? Just, I mean, cause it it, it is the biggest one you've played, right, yeah, and in your hometown any nerves? Or you just went, I'm going out there. Well, I mean, I'm sure, with making those, it it was your, it was your regular bartender in the bands. Who's your, who's your regular bartender in the bands? Because I saw the, the tequila and stuff and it it didn't look. It looked very bitter. I'll tell you that.
Speaker 2:I don't think it gives me heartburn halfway through the gig. I can't speak because of the heartburn. Often. No, there was no nerves. To be honest, I've got pretty good at like I've never really had nerves going on stage, never really. I've never really as much as some of the lads might say different, or some of the fans might say never really had like a ego or expectation of myself, really like I know, just go on stage and do my best and if and I know when I haven't done my best, then I'll just I'm um, I'll beat myself up a little bit about it, but I knew we were really well prepared and I almost everyone was asking me you know what, like the, are you nervous? You're nervous like the week and two weeks before and I said, no, I haven't thought about it. I purposely haven't thought about it in order to not get too hyped up. I need to peak at the right time.
Speaker 2:And then, also for my own sanity, I wanted it just to be another gig, in a sense that I didn't want it to be a huge like here. It is crown of moments and then come crashing down. Or I didn't want everyone else to think that's it. They come crashing down, or I didn't want everyone else to think that's it, they've done, it Done. I wanted it just to be like no, we're now just playing slightly bigger rooms. We're going to do this for the next 10 years. Like you know, we're going to do exactly this in every other city in the UK and then hopefully in America, and then all of us are pretty sort of level-headed, we don't, we don't get too ahead of ourselves and stuff. So it was just we were reassuring each other. Just go play the songs. We've done it for last two weeks, we've done for the last four years. Just go play the songs of the same old songs and take a moment now and then, when you need to, and look around and go wow and see how many people are there. But then as soon as, as soon as the next song starts, click back into gear and be Red Drum Club, be the guitarist, be the trumpet player, play your drums, play the bass, I'll sing and it'll all be fine.
Speaker 2:And we just done that. I remember we come off stage and the reaction we all sat back, stood backstage and just like sort of just went. It wasn't like high fives and hugging, we all just went like as it's like, yeah, comfortable, yeah, okay, happy play well, yeah, okay, sit, come on, then let's go and have a drink, like that. It was like we were comfortable on stage. It was like, yeah, of course we've just done the arena. We always knew we could, even though we never, we just act. You know what I mean. It saves you a lot of emotional turmoil, wow that's, that's brilliant.
Speaker 1:I mean, just take it as it is. But, um, I want to talk about the new album. Um, what I know it's always hard to ask, like what, what is your favorite song from the new album? You know, does it and does every single band mate? You know, like, have you all come together and gone? This is the one, or are you all separate and go? Well, I like this one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's all separate and, to be honest, it's forever changing. If you'd ask me tomorrow I might say a different song. There's probably two that I'm always stay up there in the top two or three of songs that I like off the album, but they come in and out of it. Most of them just come in and out of my fancy, depending on you know, you just forget, you just forget about them, you just take it for granted. A little bit, you listen back and you go.
Speaker 2:Actually, that's a good song. I'm proud of Hole In my Home, I'm proud of Jigsaw, proud of all of them, but yeah, those are the two and Last Minute I think. I think it delivers a good vocal on that one. Hole In my Home is a big epic thing and I think it's really meaningful, really universal, and the whole video around that was quite good. My home's a big epic thing and I think it's. It's really meaningful, really universal. Um, and the whole video around that was sort of it was quite good for me. Like I worked at the council to get the video shot in old flats that are being pulled down, which gives the song a different meaning and um, cause I worked for the council, you see, so I knew people through the council. I'm still still working with the kids, still working with disabled kids, so that has a meaning, you know, beyond just the song being a song.
Speaker 1:Now are you, you lad, sefton, right? Yeah, so I mean, with Jamie's gig coming up in July, that's another milestone. I mean because everyone knows Sefton Park, you know, obviously, you know the, the walk between the, the Goodison and Anfield, but like, again, to be able to play a gig like that you know outdoors as well, like it's another milestone and you're in milestone in your belt and stuff it's. You know, I just feel like you know you're just going to keep getting bigger and bigger, like I just do. I'm not just saying it because you're right in front of me, but it's just, I think, more so now that I've talked to you, because you just people change, you know when, when they start getting like songs on the radio or start playing big gigs, you know they do. I've known, you know I've made two uh djs and they start getting up there, change their whole personality. I'm like who are you? Yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You still seem so grounded. I mean, is that just the person you are and the rest of the band? You know who you are and I think keeping it real is the number one thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it probably goes back to what you said earlier about the R-Fellas. In the pub there's a luxury of being in a band because if you do get ahead of your station a little bit, there's probably your mate in the band who'll say what are you talking about there, why are you acting like that sort of thing? So you will get slapped out and being around football and growing up in the way we did in Sefton in a working class blue collar environment, you can't get too ahead of yourself, you can't get up yourself in any sort of way. You're not worthy of doing it. You know, just because you've played a few songs and you know there's people who are actually doing really good things in the world rather than us just like drinking them, playing our little tunes to people it's good to have that now, and then you fall into like, wow, we're great. You know, I've watched some videos back at the arena. I was like, wow, we've really done something there. But it doesn't change who you are really does it? I don't think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's again. You know that's what I love about you a lot and Jamie, you're exactly the same people, you know, yeah, and I love that. You've got to be real. I wanted to get back to Liverpool Football Club and your thoughts on the season so far. I mean because I know, if you asked me well, you know, august, would we be in the top four and won a trophy? I would have bit your hand off. I really would, especially after last season.
Speaker 1:So I think, you know, with Klopp coming and telling everyone in January, I think we all, a lot of us, including myself fell into this dreamlike state of this fairy tale of Klopp, you know, winning every trophy possible. I got caught up in it and I was like, ah, we're going to do it, we're going to do it. And then, a month ago, yeah, you know, the FA cup against United, where we're just smashing them, and then we just didn't finish, finish them off, and I think that's really, really hurt the lads. You can, you can tell something's not right. So what's your thoughts on? Like, you know, what were your thoughts coming in? Like last August? You know when, when you know the lads come back and you're after last season and you know Hendo Fab season and Hendo Fabinho Milner, they're all gone and it's a whole, totally new midfield.
Speaker 2:What were your thoughts on that? I would have taken top four. I would have just been like get top four, be solid, maybe some signings in January that'll kick on again next year and then maybe get a good summer again this year, maybe go for the title this year. But still, I thought that would be way off. I still thought it would take us three or four years. I thought that when we got beaten in Madrid, to be honest, I was like, ok, there's a decline here. That was it. That was crown of moments. Whether we won it or not, it wasn't going to get better. That team, that was it. That was crowning moment. Whether we won it or not, it wasn't going to get better. Or that team wasn't going to get better, it was only going down. It was 11, 13, 14 players in their absolute peak coming in this year.
Speaker 2:I was expecting a top four and then everyone sort of surprised us, sobbers' life sort of become this thing that we're like oh, it become almost like a throwback to a big, physical, strong but technical, something that we probably haven't had since. Maybe Gerrard, because you know, we had Gini who was big and strong but he didn't move the way he did, the way Sobber's like and he didn't move the way he did, the way he was lying, he didn't really hit the ball like he did from far out. He scored 25 yards the way he found a new place for Trent and he sort of, and it sort of showed up the back four. I think McAllister took a lot, a bit of time getting going. I thought physically I thought he'd struggle a little bit. I thought you can't play him in a three or you can't play him in a two or you can't play him in a six because he isn't physically quite good enough. I still think that might be the case. I think he might be a little bit lightweight at times but he's magic on the ball. I think he's the starter and he's probably the one who's come out in crown glory.
Speaker 2:But when Ben Clough announced it, I think it was perfectly timed for us to get into Dreamlands because the team were flying, everyone in retrospect, everyone was sort of overachieving, achieving not saying overachieving because that's too much, but at least being 95% in every game, every single one of them. Even Endell filed a spot and there he could come in and all that. And Nunes looked good, looked big and strong and physical, and everyone was just waiting for that to click. Salah looked good before he went to the African corporations and then I think just reality caught up a little bit with the team, as well as the emotional thing, I think, once the cracks started to appear and Dreamland became like sort of become exactly that people, I think a lot of people, including the players and including very important players.
Speaker 2:so so I've never seen Virgil van Dijk throw his hands in the air as much as he did in the past three months. I think. Trent obviously coming back and whatever, and I think he sort of realised that yeah, maybe we're not as close as we thought we were. Robbo obviously being injured and then Salah just being off the boil it was perfectly timed to come on, let's go and get four. And then Salah just being off the boil it was perfectly timed to come on, let's go and get four. And then I think Real Theatre has come, maybe late March, I don't know. I'm still incredibly proud of them and I still think there's a place for most of them. There's a place for most of them.
Speaker 2:I don't know whether you want me to be a controversially and name names and stuff, but for most of them I think there's a nice basis, there's a nice solid thing there to go and add two or three really important positions and really important classy players. Pay through the nose for them. If need not pay through the nose, but you know, because it not pay through the nose, but you know, because it's Liverpool Football Club, you're going to maybe take a risk and pay an extra 10, 15 million quid and go and get them in really important positions and go again.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I don't think we need like major surgery. You know, like, thank God I, if I didn't have a podcast, I would not be anywhere near Twitter. I'm sure you're kind of the same. You're only on Twitter because of the band. It's toxic. People just come out with the most bizarre stuff. Get rid of nine players. I'm like you're having a laugh. I think the cause there. I just think one or two players need to be moved on. I think so yeah, just to freshen things up. I mean, who are your players that you think like need to be moved on?
Speaker 2:Only because the contract situation and it kills me to say it probably Salah. If you need the money to go and get buyer's replacements, I don't want it to happen. But if he's out of the contract next year and goes on a free and we need £50 million to go on buyer's replacement, then if the right bit comes in, it's hurt me. It's hurt me as much as Owen going, suarez going, torres leaving. It'd hurt me that much. But if I'm John Henry, I'd take you'd have to take the money in order to keep. I don't know the financial ins and outs of things, but to keep the thing going. Thiago, he's just not playing enough, can't stay fit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's gone, and I think Matip's gone as well. I just think I mean, even like, I love him, like Diego, but I'm starting to see a trend of injury. He's our best finisher in my book. He can't stay fit, and Canote as well, he's the same. He's starting to get injury prone and we've got to watch for that. I mean, maybe with the whole backroom staff leaving, physios seem to be leaving. I mean now the goalkeeper, goalkeeping coach is leaving, so a whole new set of people are coming in. Maybe they can do something that the other physios weren't doing. Obviously, like, with a lot of them it's muscle injuries. I mean, we seem to be the team that always gets these muscle injuries. I don't know whether it's how you know, clock trains them in the morning and then I think they train at night as well, so twice a day. So but yeah, I think we just have to be really careful of, like I think we need two not massive names to come in. You know, not £100 players, but I think we need.
Speaker 2:What positions would you say?
Speaker 1:Well, I, I'm still up in the air with Nunes. He frustrates me, but if he wasn't getting in these positions I'd be, I'd be like get lost, you know already. But he gets in the positions, he does have chances. But I, I think his brain doesn't like work as quickly as, like you know, like the foulers and Owens or even Salah's, like yeah, he, he just tries to welly every damn ball and I'm like just place, place the ball. You know, no, no wonders. Like sometimes, like Salah gets frustrated. I mean, he, he puts the ball on a plate for both, both Nunez and Diaz. And again, diaz's work rate is bar none like fantastic, but his finishing is the same. He scores once every while. You know, gakpo, for me he needs more games and he's been playing like five, six different positions.
Speaker 1:Nunes, it's a tough one. It's like, you know, do you keep him around for another season and see what you know slot can get out of him? You know, do you play him on the wing a little bit more, like for Benfica? When he was playing on the wing, he was scoring loads. Yeah, the wing, he was scoring loads, yeah for me.
Speaker 2:No, I. You're probably going to have to keep him round because because of the financial thing and that, but I don't, I don't think he's, I don't think you're going to win a major with him playing, being your number nine or even being your third true striker. Do you know when you play, being your number nine or even being your third choice striker? Do you know when you play yourself and I'm not trying to compare football at every level, but it's do you know when you know players are onto things? You know when you're like oh, I'm on the same wavelength, if I go there, he'll go there. Or if you do that, he'll go there.
Speaker 2:And you know the intelligent players. You might have big, strong boys who can go on, run fast and win headers and whatever else, and your John Terry's are the way. But when you're on the floor or when you're just in those sharp areas around the box, some players are on it. Some players are so neat and technical and quick thinking that they make the difference. Bobby Firmino, diogo Mane, salah, they all have it. And I don't, I don't think Nunes has.
Speaker 2:I think Nunes can play him in teams like Benfica when he's expected, when okay, maybe the league isn't as good, but also he's got lots, of, lots of time and space and he plays it in a way where you put the ball in between him and the goal, but in front of him and you let him chase it and he finishes it. He's got one to beat and he does it when you've got in Liverpool. If you play for Liverpool, you've got 65-75% of possession every single game. So most of the time you're playing within a third of the pitch and you need the players who can make the difference there. And I don't think he's quite. He hasn't got the feet to do it. Maybe not the brain. Maybe he has got the brain, but the feet he hasn't got to do it.
Speaker 2:And those vital moments where he needs to be really astute and really sharp in front of goal, he's not quite. The emotions take over him and he goes for the blast. He goes for his physical prowess rather than his intelligent thinking, probably going to stick around and do you know what? He might go and score another 15 this year, but I guarantee you he will not score 15 winners. He won't score five winners. He'll score two away at home when we've won 4-0. Or, like you know, when you play an R12 game against Sheffield United, they'll go and score two there because you'll have muscles from one and they'll go and score.
Speaker 2:But those moments, like we've seen in the past couple of games, where you're going to get one chance in the second half and you need to take it the chance the cup finals, the semi-finals, the games against City, arsenal semi-finals, the games against City, arsenal, derby United I don't think he doesn't feel any confidence being on the pitch. But again, people can point to stats and go 15 goals he scored, or this many goals and blah, blah, blah. Just unfortunate and I feel for him because he does try hard on that. But maybe having third choice and come on the bench and cause murder every 60 minutes, every game. But how much was he on? 150 a week, 150 thousands a week or something, like you know, diva.
Speaker 1:Hariri, he was on half of that yeah, I mean for me, I think in the middle of the pitch. I like Endo, but he's 29 and he's slow as hell and I think I've really realised how much we miss a first season. Fabinho, he can get a lot over the pitch and I think, watching the derby, I don't think I've ever seen us play that shite Like. I had a podcast this morning and I was just telling them like we needed like a James Milner for that match, where he comes on and he gets stuck in, you know, put your foot in, not like dirty, but just put your foot in. I never saw any of that during the derby. It was all Everton that would kind of be in the physical team and we just kind of it looked like we wanted to play this pretty football. Sometimes you just got to, you know, grab the ball by the horn and just be like, all right, we got to get physical here and I think that's what we're missing. We're missing like a hard man in midfield.
Speaker 2:That's when I was watching the derby. I texted in the group chat. I said okay, mcallister's great magic, beautiful, amazing. Okay, mcallister's great magic, beautiful, amazing, gifted football player, but you can't rely on him in games like that. In the same way Endo, because how many derbies or like big games like that, how many managers like Sean Dice does Endo come up against in his career? And even McAllister maybe a little bit wet-runnier when it comes to sort of the physical like no, this game is just about who wants it more Kicking, heading, running fast, like tackling, like those absolute boil-down basics. And if you watch, I think I said in the group chat too again, and it was met with sort of agreements with all my mates, sort of Miss Henderson.
Speaker 2:It was so lethargic and like pass and pass and pass, we'll score the perfect goal in a minute. Don't worry, we'll score the perfect goal, we'll find an opening. Find an opening when you watch Ender. All Ender would shout to people, to people on the ball. He'd be shouting to McCasney do it quick, hurry up, come on, come on, let's go win the game. Sort of putting on your own, onus on them. Players like don't just like pass it round and wait for everyone else to score or wait for the perfect chance. We need to go score the goal, put the and that sort of mentality, that almost working class mentality I know, because I know all the lads who play for Liverpool probably are working class but that sort of Northern like we're in the park, let's go and win it. That's Sunday league, we're on a bog, let's just put the ball in the box and let's really take the ball by the horn, to use your analogy.
Speaker 2:I think we sort of miss a bit of leadership in there. Van Dijk sort of yeah, he's a leader and he's a total and all that, but he hasn't. I think he's a little bit too cool for school at times where he's just like don't worry, we'll pass it around, give it to you and we'll give it to Trent. He's really golden McAllister, my mate there. He'll pass it. Sometimes you just need to go get the ball in the box. Let's go do it, roy.
Speaker 1:Keane, stephen Gerrard, henderson no, spot on, I agree, I just think sometimes I want to see Virgil angry and you barely see him sweat. I just want to see him just go like Motherfuck. What are you doing? Come on, and I haven't been seeing that lately, and that's what you want from your captain, yeah.
Speaker 2:He does it in reactionary ways, like someone gives the ball away and he has to cover them, or whatever He'll shout, or like he'll throw his arms in the air. That's all I feel like I've watched him do for the last three months in golf. Like that, after he has to cover or he goes out for a throw-in or a corner or something. But he needs to be proactive in a sense that like not just standing waiting watching people. He needs to him and not just him, because I don't want to talk about him, but him and Trent Salah Robbo they all need to, and it's probably the middle of the pitch is probably where we're lacking it.
Speaker 2:You've got your back four doing that and then you've got the two wingers doing that. You need someone right in the middle there to be going come on, let's just go and do it, not from the whistle, from the third. That's why we keep going down, because it's okay, we'll score in a minute. Boys, take your time, pass it, control the game. So I think in midfielders to do that would be great, but it's hard to come into a team full of Virgil van Dijk, trent Alexander-Arnold Mo Salahs and then be able to shout your gob off. It's going to take a lot of money and a big person to do that, isn't it really?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just think, like especially midfield, I mean so many injuries and then you know, your back four kept switching out. I don't think we played with the same centre-backs like barely two games on the trot. You know, robbo was out, trent's been out and thank God for, like, connor Bradley, absolutely amazing, but again.
Speaker 2:He's a monster. He's going to be unbelievable. He hasn't even finished. Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you're just looking like You're putting all this pressure on a young lad.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then Gomez, for me, has been the most improved player this season. I mean, he's played anywhere Klopp has told him to do and he's done a damn good job. You know there was people going last season get rid of Gomez. I'm glad we kept him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's solid.
Speaker 1:He kind of helped save the season, so to speak. You know, I think Simakas probably needs to go. If I'm being honest, yeah, left-back don't we? Yeah, he just doesn't give me positive vibes at all. I mean, yeah, he did the pen-o for us when we won the FA Cup or League Cup a couple of seasons ago. But you know, apart from that, like I mean, krasin's not great, you know. But whenever you have somebody like Robbo, who's absolutely boss and, like you know, his assists are way up here, you've got to have a really good backup. And I just don't think he's. I like the young lad from Fulham Robinson. I think he's good. That's for, obviously, edwards and Hughes to figure out. That's why we watch football, so we don't have to do all that stuff so we can do this without any accountability we can talk absolute cod shit.
Speaker 1:They're alright. So, fran, I've got two more questions for you before I leave you. First, what does Jürgen Klopp mean to you?
Speaker 2:well, jürgen Klopp mean to you. Well, jürgen.
Speaker 1:Klopp means some of the it's awful. You have to hear that in three weeks' time.
Speaker 2:He's given me some of the best memories I've ever had.
Speaker 2:yeah, he's sort of lifted the club up and the city up you know sort of by the, by the bootstraps, and put us back to not where we belong, but where we belong. He's, he's. He's also sort of been a breath of fresh air, and I know everyone says it because he's like the guy and he's kind of he's also sort of been a breath of fresh air, and I know everyone says it because he's like the guy and he's the normal one or whatever else. But to be able to be good at something, to be able to be at least at anything that you are, any industry that you're in, or anything that you want to do with your life, you can still be a good person Like. You can still be like, just likeable.
Speaker 2:You know that story where they get beaten in the European Cup and all the lads are sulking after the game and that, and he comes over and says you're going to be like this all night, come on, come on, have a pint. And massively just puts things into perspective of of like. He takes it really, really seriously, but he sort of he doesn't let it take it, he doesn't let it poison him or make it change him in any sort of way. He's still a left-leaning, beer-drinking sort of good guy. You know what I mean, and you can do that and be the absolute pinnacle of anything you want. You don't have to be crazy, obsessed, sort of authoritarian money-grabbing, which is what the Premier League would be if it wasn't for Jürgen Klopp, if Jürgen Klopp was not the manager.
Speaker 2:Look at all the top managers Okay, pep, he has stayed around, he's been the longest serving. Is he the longest serving? I'm not sure, but the footballing managerial merry-go-rounds, the players and the agents, sort of back and forth. It's become this sort of crazy, mad, elitist, money-hungry revenue stream for the elites, even the tick prices and all that. He's sort of he's just stood. He's just stood, being himself right in the middle of it, and you know he's the perfect example for anyone who wants to do anything. Do you know what I mean? He's a good guy.
Speaker 1:He's the same person, I think, who walked through that door in October 2015. He's the same person leaving. But yeah, it's going to be an emotional day, but, as we know, as Liverpool Football Club, you know, managers do come and they do go and we, you know, we're still Liverpool Football Club. So, but yeah, I just wish we could have added a few more trophies, but he's, you know, he's leaving a legend we might get them, depending on them, 115 charges we might get some of them yeah, right, when pigs fly.
Speaker 1:Alright, my last one is ultimate festival line up. So you've got your Friday, your Saturday and Sunday, and alive or dead ok, what headliners?
Speaker 2:just headliners, just headliners.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just your main stage headliners.
Speaker 2:Okay, I go Saturday. I come to Friday, saturday I go. Arctic Monkeys First ever band that I was, I was, I talked to my heart. They were my ones. Like that's a band that was I was, I took to my heart, they were my ones. Like that's a band that speaks to me. Sunday Headliners the Beatles, because they're everyone's bands, they're not my band, they're everyone's and the music started with them. Wow, friday, friday, friday Friday probably. Fleetwood Mac. Wow, friday, friday, friday, friday. Probably Fleetwood Mac. They were probably the music in the background of my childhood as I played in the garden or you know. I never knew who they were, but I just knew all the songs and when I got to a point where music was a thing, I took an interest in them, and probably more so for my mum that one. She was like a big fan. She always had Smooth Radio on or Rumours. We'd have the Rumours album on most of the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my dad was Black Sabbath, deep Purple, and my mum was Elvis and Beatles, so I had a really cool heavy sound, but then the soul of the Beatles, elvis. But yeah, well, fran and I was already gone by and I loved chatting with you. It's actually nice to see you again, but actually sit down and have a good chinw chatting with you. It's actually nice to see you again, but, you know, actually sit down and have a good chinwag with you. So I wish you and the band all the best. If people that are listening, if you're over in the States, please go check out Red Rum Club. They're on their US tour in the next couple of weeks. Please go check out their album, western Approaches. I'll put a link in the description when it goes out. But yeah, until next time, please like subscribe, put your notifications on and all that good stuff, and we'll see you next time.
