The Liverpool Connection Podcast
The Liverpool Connection Podcast
Special Guest: KEITH TAYLOR - Football and Mental Health
Keith takes us on a journey through his dream of becoming a professional footballer and into his current role as a counselor. He shares the harsh realities of the football scene, where psychological support for young athletes was scarce, and how this shaped his path.
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Hi everyone and welcome to another episode story episode of the Liverpool Connection podcast. I am Daza. If you haven't liked and subscribed, please do all that good stuff. It helps us, you know, just to put out better content and everything. And today I've got a really good guest. I actually met him on the Frank Carlisle show, which is also another podcast you need to check out. Really cracking Liverpool one, as honest as you can be. But I've got Keith Taylor. He's a counsellor and therapist and, of course, a Liverpool supporter, because if he wasn't, he wouldn't be on the show. I am ace. Well, I do lie, though. I have had three Evertonians on the show before, so I've had across the park lads and also Dave. The few banks Sound Evertonians. There are some good Evertonians out there, not my cousin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they haven't spoke to me in probably since about 95, which sounds about right, yeah. Yeah, you got any Evertonians in the family?
Speaker 2:Me, dad, yeah so a few cousins. But people often say to me how come you know your dad's a blue in your head? So that was bull with brains. So yeah, so we've had our women's in the past, maybe sort of post 95. And that, how do you?
Speaker 2:know, oh, it's, it's merely, you know, because we went to, we went on holiday one year and Everton beat us. It was a good thing and I'm trying to think what game it was. I've got it to sneak and feel it was the one way that horrible. What's his name? Johnson was up front, and it's only that you know. We watched the mass together on holiday and then we had to fall on house and didn't talk for the couple of days like, but other than that, at least you were on holiday, though you know you can kind of go and wave and you can go and have a few beers.
Speaker 2:But if it wasn't actually wasn't for me, dad, I wouldn't be a red.
Speaker 1:But how does that work out, though, Because you know the dads are blue. I mean, did he take you to Goddison?
Speaker 2:So my first game was August and it was around my birthday time, so it was around my 27th August, so it was around that time. I remember it was nearly nearly birthday in 1975 and played Topman at home. I think we won 3-1 or 3-2. I just remember what we won and what happened was I was going, I went to a wedding and it was my mum's best friends went.
Speaker 2:But back in 75, to get married for the second time was a bit frowned upon in many ways. You know, getting divorced and then getting married again, not many people done it at that time. So they got married in the registry office and it was 11 o'clock. I remember it was early in the morning, around 11 o'clock, and went back to the house, come sort of one off one. The groom and most of the fellas said right, jean, we're going to match. It was Wednesday and so my dad said to me well, I'm going to take our keys with me, you know. And my dad said those days I mean I know like I'd come to you and I'd said about my best mate.
Speaker 2:My best mate passed away in 97, but he was a blue and we used to go and watch every now and again He'd say I'm going to match as you come with us, and I'd sit there. I wouldn't support him, of course, like, but it's it there Because it was a football match. It was a lovely fuzzy, but the relationship between the pro and the pro supporters in the 80s was totally different. So so, yeah, I'd go to go to someone we can need to come to Hanfield, but also me going to go to some rather than in my Hanfield. And yeah, I went to.
Speaker 2:I went to the match and I remember the main stand there used to be a paddock area in front of the main stand. Then I remember going in I can't remember how many of the was maybe off, it wasn't and they passed me down to where my dad was standing with me, a little Dennis, and they passed me down and sat me on the barrier to some fellow yeah, keep all the room there for us. And yeah, yeah, yeah, no problems. And they just fell it. We didn't know from as in keep those me on the, on the barrier. And I'm not just remember looking and seeing the cop and it swaying up and down side to side and seeing me Clemens as well. Clem became my hero and hence what I became a play and go myself because of Clem. And so, yeah, that's and that was it. I fell in love, I just absolutely fell in love. It was just like that, was it? Yeah, I just became obsessed with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so crazy because you know I've told the kind of same story as well. You know I went with my granddad and when he needed to go to the Lou he'd pass me to some stranger. Yeah, I mean, I look after our kid. Well, you know I go. Yeah, it's just not even think about leaving your child with a straight yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:I mean the times back then. You know what we see, you know what people, people's mindsets and what are you? But yeah, that was, that was my first game and that's when I became hooked.
Speaker 1:So obviously you know that was what my next question was. You know who was your, you know poster, poster boy, and obviously Ray Clemens, the great man you know. God bless, I mean what? What a goalkeeper Do you know?
Speaker 2:what I used to go. I used to go in the car, then buzz got a bit old to go in the car and always watch Clem, watch how we used to. You know it always make us marks on the on the sides of the. The area is angles and everything else, and they never used to wear gloves until late 70s, you know. And and if the car is worse, прис Emmisy's, yeah, I just watched them all the time. But I love Keegan as well. I love Kevin Keegan, I love Tom. Tom always says to me you know what I'm saying, but I obviously love Tom, I'm the news. And then obviously you go into Kenny and Sue Ness and Ruxie and Wabi. But Clem was always meeting him and there were shanks as well. I was lucky enough to meet shanks at Lime Street, station 77 before the final.
Speaker 1:And Wembley, or Bro, yeah, wembley, that was the first final I went to with my granddad. Really, yeah, it wasn't a very good trip home.
Speaker 2:I was with Lou McCarrie and a member I was with my uncle, phil, and my dad's brother and he said there's Bill Shankley and he said go and ask him if he wants. And he had to hold on. He said go and ask him if he wants, is there a carry for him? And I'm like, and he goes, just go with it. So when I said there, mr Shankley, can I carry your bag for him, he said I can go and throw. And then I am and there's this God's hand on my shoulder going over and there's no body as there then to go onto the platform and I walked to a point and I said thanks very much. The winners' parking gave me 50 pence. 50 pence to be there then was like 50 quid now. But come away. I was just like, oh my God, bill Shankley and I've looking enough, I've got to know his grandad's a Karen, karen Gill. And I told Karen that story and that. And so, yeah, absolutely amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've actually had Karen on before she's told some. Like you know, my grandad tried to tell me these stories. That's again why I have this podcast. It's an ode to me grandad for not listening to his stories. So when I heard these stories from Karen about you know her grandfather, I mean it my hair was just standing up, because he's a legend. You know just what a nice fella he was. You know he had time for everyone, just the nicest person. But I mean for you, how old Seven? Yeah, same, I was six. I was walking around Liverpool like that.
Speaker 2:And you know, honestly, it was just a member of Phil. Yeah, for whatever reason, I don't know where we went after that and he was, remember Saturday and the others is is painting. I was just on cloud nine. I was just like and he was great feeling that, yeah, it's just. And then Shank for me then was like God, you know, god, I mean I was like I'm not posting on the wall, it wasn't posters or such, it was newspaper and it was. And if there's anything, bill Shank, and they'd have it up on me wall and I'd have the big color team posters. Remember them? You used to get the big color team posters on me wall and we still used to get those silk scarves with the, the tassels on the ends, that open and mirror. But it wasn't like a mirror but it had like the, the, the disisand field in the center of it. And I just remember. Now just call, come on back to me on my bedroom. I was just trying to live a pool. You know my bed was red, so yeah, yeah, always.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's just crazy to think, you know, because obviously we live in, you know, the social media world where everybody takes the camera out. But memories are here. Yeah, you know. I mean I'm sure you would love to have gone back, you know your older self and be able to take a selfie with Shankly I mean, that's one to put on the wall. But you know, you've got your memories and I think sometimes I would social media with. With that, you kind of lose the heart and soul. You know, like I mean for me, like meeting some of these players, you know, when I was a lot younger, like I'd never change it for the world, you know, instead of doing doing this with them, I'm just next to them. They're shaking me on. It's just changed. The whole environment has changed so much. Yeah, I mean you must have carried that with you for a while, like telling all your mates and like they're going, yeah, whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just honest to God, I think, because I don't know why. I feel he had the camera. We were there because it wasn't the European Chef Equal and we went there because we've been told that the players were going down on the train and I mean there was loads of other supporters there and all that. But it was just that Phil had seen shanks come up from the escalator and he just said something to those other kids around and he must have survived and obviously ran sports into and but yeah, going back and saying to me, mate, it was actually me teacher and saying to him, I'm a Bill Shankley, you know, and he was like, I'm like some kind of sort of probably sort of flyer, because there was no evidence of it.
Speaker 1:Stop telling lies, keith. Yeah, but yeah, you're getting it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, just absolutely amazing.
Speaker 1:It's got to be good for your dad too, because even though he's an Evertonian, I mean everybody in Liverpool, whether you're blue or red, respected Bill.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, because although he made a quote one time, he made a quote one time, right, even if Evan were playing at the back of the garden and then he back on that draw the curtains over, but he used to go to their training ground when he finished Liverpool. There was a point where he used to go back to Melbourne's and it got to a point that I need to know the players were still calm, boss. You know, I got to a point where he was still sort of going to Melbourne getting involved in that. So the point where it pays the after obviously has to say to him well, bill, you know you're going to have to stop coming as regular. You know didn't say to stop, you know, and I'm the boss now, you know it's we've got to move on and whatever.
Speaker 2:And then gradually the club sort of would say phase them out. But you know, even to the matches, you know it wasn't getting the tickets and all the invites and things like that to the games, and so he was obviously obsessed with football. He'd go to Tommy Rovers or Evan, and I know his anniversary is when I was. One time he took his wife to Chester City I think it was the reserve to play in, so that was the type of fellow. But I thought the way was treated, you know, by the club Certainly not from the fans but by the club in the latter years was disrespectful for what he's done for the club Were you, were you a really big kid at Melwood?
Speaker 2:Do you know what we used to? So we had the stick and we put, no, like you know, polio sticks. So we had this pole and we had these bits of wood so we made our sort of own ladder and you'd go up so the poles and I'd have all the pole and you'd go up the thing and look over and we didn't go really good. We didn't really go to Melwood much to do that. But yeah, that's what happened. It's like the stick with them all and, yeah, brilliant, just great memories.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, back then you had the inventive imagination to see football heroes. I mean, you know, do some crazy stuff, like just to get a peek, you know, at your heroes. So when did you start going away matches as well?
Speaker 2:No more so because my uncle, who was a red, he worked for he had a very sort of high profile job so he wasn't home during the week a lot. So he was. He was married so he was obviously having to spend time at home weekend as much as he could. And then everyone else that I was sort of within the family or friends, they were Epitonians, we, you know. So there wasn't anyone that could really go to the away games with other than maybe schoolmates. But I had schooled the lads who were in school, or my friends, you know where we lived, and they weren't really interested in going to the matches with us.
Speaker 2:I was twice to go me and you think about it, I was only, I was 11. I used to go on me on, just just going on and going to boys bed. I got to know the lads, you know lads at the match and things like that. So yeah, just going on me on, because I was that obsessed with them, you know. So yeah, but I didn't go through many of the way matches until me late teens, we started going. It was funny enough for some to friends and neighbour about it. We were saying, like about the best club at the best grounds you've been to in the way of grounds. I always remember it was about me, second or third, and it was coming where it throws. Oh my God, it hasn't changed much now it's a different now to what it was back then.
Speaker 2:But I just remember thinking we remember like all the terrorist houses around it and like going through like a tunnel and steps to go through. It was just weird and just it was. I, just I was used to say it's horrible. You know, yeah, I don't think it's changed much now by the looks of it so. And then, yeah, so that was really sort of late 80s and then starts going to like more away games and then, as you get older, you start drinking and start going out. You meet girls. But then I was also, you know, looking to play football myself as well. I wanted to be a footballer and so I wanted to sort of concentrate more on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, like you know, every 15, 16 year old wants to be a footballer, whether they're good or not. You know playing the streets and all that stuff, but you know it's just one of those like you really have to like focus on it nonstop. You know, come down the arcades. You know, come to the pub and you just got to be like no, I can't, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think at that time. So I at that time, so I was 15, so I had the well, so I was at trial at Tramya and over that period of time then it was like Tramya, then comes Chester, then Rexham, but I had a double compound fracture, yeah, 11th Fox over the 1988. And that was horrendous. And then trying to get back playing to a certain level you know the youth teams or well, I was 18. And by the time I was back playing in any 20 sorts of capacity, I was 19. And so then you know you weren't playing youth level. So I was going to like places like Swansea to any more, believe it or not, and went up to Sunderland, reynolds, lincoln, of all places, and they were, they were like, they were like in the, the old Forte Division, newport County. You know I was going around to different places having trials with them, but unfortunately because of the injury I was never the, I was never the same, you know. So whether I was told enough, whether I'd amazed, you know you can have luck as well.
Speaker 1:Well, that's got to be tough, though, you know, because I've had this conversation quite a few times. I mean, at least nowadays, you know there's psychologists, there's counsellors that can help these young lads. Back in the 80s there was nothing, you know, no, no. So I mean, if you put your heart and soul into playing football and you don't make it, you know you hear of these cases of massive, you know depression and then some suicides as well. So I mean, how did you deal with it? When did you finally know? Like okay, that's it. I'm just not, not meant, meant for this.
Speaker 2:There's two sides to that. One was the experience of having the accident, because obviously my bones have come through, so I'd seen to look at. That was quite traumatic, you know, and I went into shock as well and I just remember them. I got hooked to a buba hospital and then, yeah, just sort of going through that was quite traumatic. And then I actually spoke to a former manager, a fellow called Billy McNeill, who was at Rexham and I got to answer him and he just said to me you know you're never going to make it, you're never, you're not going to be to a standard what clubs want or need or require. You know, and you know you've seen there back. You know, back in those days there's not like psychologists or anything like that, but even then hospitals and the aftercare and things like that.
Speaker 2:You know, I always remember John Barn saying that you know, if he when he got that injury so it was Achilles if that had been with the technology that you've got today and the care and the physiotherapy and everything else back, then he probably would, could possibly have got back to, how you know, the standard. I mean, we all love John Barn, didn't we? So he could possibly have got back to the level, close to the level that he was playing back then. But that affected him that much he couldn't have played the ring again. He had to go in the sense of the field. So so, yeah, could. If we had the technology back then would I maybe have been the same player or, you know, made it Never know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is really tough, you know. I mean when your heart and soul set on something and then obviously it's lost through. So after that, I mean, you're how old then? 18? I was 18. 18. So what was your path after that?
Speaker 2:Um, god, I was. It's like you know, whenever you, whenever you speak to someone who's been in a, in a sport, a professional sport, so you know whether a boxer or football especially, and the careers finish, they don't know what to do with themselves. You know, and I was at that point where I was like what do I do? You know, where do I go from here? What you know, I don't know what else I can do. So I tried landscape gardening. I went and worked for a company called Color Vision selling television, dvd players, but they still had video players as well and I've done and doing things like that and I just didn't know what to do. So I then got into doing weights and sort of bodybuilding and built myself up a bit. So I ended up being a bailiff.
Speaker 2:I waved in South Wales as a bailiff for one of our neighbors. One of our neighbors had his own business, so I used to work away a few days a week as a bailiff. Well, when I say who? That's why you should do all the way, sort of not as far as Cardiff, but sort of um, uh, clenetley, um, even the mumbles towards Habford West, all that coast, mertha, um, and what have you. And it was great. You know, even at that age, you know, I think I was. I'm trying to think of older boys, I'm 19 or 20.
Speaker 2:And then, um, but it got to a point where being away from home was being a bit of, we've got to be a bit of a band. Um came back and met a girl Um, it was actually our Milken's daughter. I got to choose to come and collect the money on a Friday night and I got to go to the MetA. I was with her for a couple of years and that. And then, um, yeah, we're for collusion.
Speaker 2:And then I went away for the railways, um, and then I went to Sainsbury. To Sainsbury, so do? All these things were sort of I just did. I was going from one job to another because I didn't know what to do. Just I didn't know what I wanted to be. Um, and then I got to a point there, 97. My best friend took his own life and, um, that hit me hard, really hard. I mean I ended up with PTSD without sort of knowing it. But I decided to study psychology and, um, yeah, I, I, I, I don't know. And then started going when, to start, I went to work for the Liverpool Echo. Um, and that's where my involvement then with the former Liverpool players came about. Um and then, yeah, sort of um, the journey to counselling and therapy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, like when a mate passes away, especially of suicide, you know that's that's you start reflecting on your own life as well. We've all done it. You know I've had mates that have tried, you know, to commit suicide and it's a horrible thing, you know. So was it something that when your mate did pass, that's when you were like that's the path I want to really take?
Speaker 2:Not at that time, because I was. I went through a period of time of feeling guilty about it because there was a few times not many, but a few times, three or four times he'd said to me I'm going to kill myself. And I just had to don't be stupid, you know. And then, the last time it's seen, and we were in the taxi coming home we've been out for a few drinks and been into town and we were in a hackney cap and he said to me, I'm going to kill myself. And so I was sat on the back seat, he was on the seat behind the driver and I'm leaning over to him, grabbing him, and I said just shut up, where's the that effect? Shut up, you're talking rubbish. If you carry on like that, I'll kill you, you know. And we started laughing. And then I just remember then I can't remember how long after and then I just remember sitting with my mum and dad's front living room and I was sat at the chair by the front window and I'd seen his dad's girlfriend come up the road which she never really did because I lived three doors away from and she never ever come up the road. And as she came up and she'd come down the path and I just knew.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, I hit me hard and I blamed myself for a long time. You know I was. I went out drinking and fighting stupid things, as you do, because I put my stress disorder. But then it got to a point where a little boy I laughed at was like do you know what? I want to help people who are going through the same thing. You know, because I had two friends doing it. So, and whenever you hear about suicide, you've never heard a female doing it, and it was always fellas or young lads. You know. So I knew. Then, when I was at the echo and I was talking to different people and etc. I knew then, yeah, that's my I think that's my future goal, that's what I want to do, that's what I want to go into.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, it is really tough because you know, as we talked before, you know we both come from a time where, you know you didn't cry, you didn't really talk about, you know what was going on on the inside, you just had to sort it yourself. You know, and I still think it's a little bit like that, for you know quite a number of people. You know they just feel that they can't express themselves because you know either one they're going to get ridiculed. But you know just when this goes out. If you're listening and you need to talk, I just say talk to a stranger, talk to anyone, talk to anyone just to get you know what you have inside out. You know it's no good bottling up. I've done it.
Speaker 1:You know my mum passed away with cancer and I felt like it was my fault, you know, and obviously it wasn't. I didn't give me mum cancer, but there was parts where my mum passed away and the day she passed away I was supposed to go see her and I didn't and that stuck with me for the longest time same with me, sister, because she'd been okay with a blood clot to the brain. She had a leg amputated like a few days before, but she looked fine, you know, and I think that's what ate at me and I let that get to me, you know, and once I started talking about it, I got better and better, knowing it wasn't my fault and I'm sure you're the same you know. Of course it's not your fault that your friend did that to himself. You know, yeah, yeah it's. You still beat yourself up, though you're like I should have been there if I would have been there that night. But then, if you would have been there that night, you might have chosen another night, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I speak to clients. You know my clients now and say something like you know if they've had a death, you know whether it's a friend suicide, a parent, grandparents, friend, whatever it is, and they're living with that guilt. The way I explain things is that you know, same with me, same with you, with your mum I'm sorry to hear that and your sister it's. You know, you never know what each day will bring. My best friend's sister was very close to passed away near the house Saturday just gone. And you know when you live with that guilt, what you've always remembered is you know if someone's going to take their own life, it doesn't matter whether it was at that time when they took it. It could have been another time, months later, weeks later, years later. You just don't know. And when you know a loved one's passed away within you know, whatever circumstances it is, you know if it wasn't what they passed away from, it could have been something else at another time. You know, and to cherish and just remember the cherish, there was those good memories that you've got, you know, because they wouldn't blame you. They wouldn't, you know, hold it against you. So you know that's the best way and you know, I did all different types of mental health and I went through mental health myself.
Speaker 2:But one of the other reasons that I went into what I'd do was that I so I'm nearly 50, I'm nearly 53. So from the age of eight up until sort of you know, a few years ago, I also sort of went with mental health like badly, really badly, you know incessant bullying at school. I won't go into it, but I was abused and I sort of even then I went through a sort of form allian in sort of my teens. So my head was mashed for a long time going through the adolescence, teens, 20s theories, the way I pointed with me where I questioned about whether I wanted to carry on, you know many times. So mental health, you know and I think that's right where I'm at an advantage, what I do now Mental health can get a grip here and so when I speak to people now, you know people watching this and that and they think you know they're struggling the one thing I would say with myself was that I help people now because I know exactly what they're going through.
Speaker 2:I know exactly how they're feeling and exactly what they're saying, because I went to counsellors or I went through therapy when we made diets and it did nothing for me, because they should just sit there, listen, ask a couple of questions and then at the end of the day, they go. Okay then, so we'll see you next week or whenever it was. You walk out saying you go. What was the point of that? They never gave me any advice or help or explained things, whereas with myself I'm able to sit there and say, right, okay, we'll look, I've tried this. Do that, you know, or I never. I never tell anyone to do it and to know who is advised people walking up. This is how I got through this. Maybe this will help you, you know.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I feel like I'm just re-living my life, like I've done therapy before and it's been exactly the same. Sit down, tell me your story, but you're not. You're just listening to me and you're not really helping me. Yeah, you know, it did absolutely nothing apart from emptying my bank account. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Do you know what? And the thing is that whether you go to an NHS or private councillor, the stories that I hear from other people things haven't changed much, even now. And that's where I'm different, you know, that's where I'm completely different towards us, because you know, I'll say to them I know exactly what that feels like. You know, you feel them and you know. You know what you're saying there. You went through it. You come out a little bit confused, angry and agitated from you know, I'm supposed they're supposed to be helping me get better. How, yeah? And then you lose. You lose faith and trust and you could spiral into a deeper depression or a deeper state of mental health, whatever. There's a shorter issue that you've got, because you're expecting to go to a councillor or therapist to get the help that you're desperate for or require. And come on out and think about you know, and I actually went to one therapist who made me worse. So you know.
Speaker 1:Well, it's too easy also for therapists just to go here's some antidepressant drugs and then that opens up another door. Yeah, addiction, absolutely. Like you know, I've had, you know, chris Kirkland on before and, god bless, you know, he was so truthful about, like his addiction with painkillers. You know, because he, his mental health was, you know, shot as well. And it is it just this talking of, just like it's like, because some therapists are just so used to people talking to them. It's just a brick wall, absolutely here you go, try these and then you're either like zombified you know where all the feelings are, just gone, and you're just a zombie walking around. You know you're not the same person.
Speaker 1:You can tell when people are on antidepressants because the soul looks like it's been ripped from them and and and you wouldn't think, like footballers, like Chris and like you know, a lot of footballers have come out and said they've got mental health issues and that's led to addiction. Because it's easy for these therapists, doctors, to just go. I don't really want to deal with your problem. It is some. It is some drugs, yeah honestly.
Speaker 2:I mean, look at Delhi, ali, he's just come out with the issues that he's got. And Stan Collymore I mean you know you go back to the nineties Collymore, he got ridiculed. People were actually saying to him how can you have mental health problems when you're on 20 grand or 25 grand a week or you're a millionaire? Money doesn't mean, you know, means nothing. It's like I was saying to my wife last night my wife mentioned about. She said have you seen Celine Dion? And Celine Dion is now in a wheelchair because she's got this condition that shows that the body goes like a mannequin, that eventually you know it's like this, like steps in your own thing. And I said, you know, I just said to her that that shows you that you know she's a multimillionaire. It goes to show you that money doesn't bring the health that you know. You just think if you've got money, you've got your physical and mental health and it doesn't work like that.
Speaker 2:And I, when you're saying about medication, I'm a great believer that medication, that any SSRI or antidepressants, I'm a great believer that don't take them. I was on. I was given something called it's actually banned that called peroxetine saroxate, and I was on that until I met my wife and it was only because I was so happy and in love I actually forgot to take it over the number of days because when I first met my wife I was on cloud nine. I forgot actually forgot to take me medication and I was open. I was upfront and open, so it's a safe. I take medication. And then I said to her I haven't taken it for some of the issues. We'll carry on to how you get on.
Speaker 2:But previous to that I tried to come off it and the side effects were actually horrendous. So I think it's like that I suppose like CBO effect and what have you and that mind of a matter that if you're still feeling a level of anxiety or depression or whatever it is and you're trying to come off that medication, you're not going to be able to do it because you're still anxious or depressed and everything else. But if you're on such a high and you're not thinking about, because you're on such a high, you're not thinking about your mental health or you don't feel depressed. So that's why I was able to come off, because my hormonal level and the adrenaline was through the roof. So whenever I speak to anyone now and they say, oh, I'm on surgery, and also teleprompter or for the vaccine, whatever they're on. And I'm going to say to them try and come off.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I mean it's like I call them like uppers down, as all around us you know, because anti-depressants and then your doctor or therapist will get you another prescription to kind of level that one out. By the time you know, in five years down the line you're on three, four different pills and it just gets worse and you're not really working on the inner you. So I think that you know the deli allee like interview was really hard to watch for me, as it should for anyone. It just showed like because we've all I mean I'm being honest, I've laughed at deli like when he went to Everton. I laughed, you know, because he was like this poster boy, you know he was the next like superstar English player and then he went downhill and you don't think about what's really going on with him. You know I was like man, your career must be in the shambles if you're going to Everton, I'm being honest, and that interview really knocked me back and I was ashamed that you know I laughed at him yeah.
Speaker 2:And I understand that because I'm hoping that you know if he's able to come back and play to you know wherever, I'm sure he'll play again. I'm hoping that the fans understand and give him a good reception and whether that's Everton or whoever you know, and I'm sure he will, you know it's because mental health now is got to that level that it's more understandable and more acceptable. And when you say near about doctors before, the fact that doctors are now under pressure for time limits to see each patient and so you know they only get five minutes. The very most five minutes is what they're told you've got to. You know you've got five minutes to sit with the patients, check them over, get them out, prescribe them whatever, and then get them out Mental health. You go and see some more for the first time. So you can't explain that from now in five minutes it's easy for them to pick up prescription and say, there you go, take 20 millilitre, 20 milligram of that, and then come back and see me in three weeks, four weeks time because he's got to give time for them to wear. And why they? But you're right, you know up as down as, because they can not. Every SSRI is the same as well. So you can take one particular one and it can make you feel worse and then they'll put you on another one which can make you feel just as bad, even worse again. It's actually fine and one of those, the right chemical to wait for you. So I'm when you were saying before that story about talking to anyone.
Speaker 2:One of the big problems with people with mental health and quite sort of to resemble level of mental health, is that a they don't want to speak to anyone or the front to speak to someone. I remember I've spoken to many people and said to them look, here's my business, here's my cards, here's my number, contact me and let's get you emerald. I always do a free consultation and then we can go into. You know we're down, I can assess you, whether I think you know, yeah, I can help you, or if you need other help, whether it's like how she or whatever it is or whatever, but they don't come back because actually some people actually find them becoming better or the process of trying to get better. You know better words. You know I can think about that, actually frightened of becoming what they used to be, because they've been used to living that level of anxiety and what have you. So it's really strange, really strange, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just you know, because I've been through it, you know I always say you know, just seek, help, seek, talk about it, talk about your issues, and you know the deli alleys. Really, I think you know there's a lot more footballers that probably have issues than we, you know money doesn't buy you everything.
Speaker 1:Money doesn't buy you happiness. It just helps you buy things. You know, and I think that opened up another world for a lot of people to actually be like, wow, this lad has been through hell and back, you know, and he's still standing here, which is good. You know, and I hope again, you know it's great to talk about this because you know again, as fellows, like, we keep everything inside. Well, we used to. Now it's a lot easier, especially when you have a loving family around you.
Speaker 1:You know, like for me, my Mrs is my rock, like she's the most. You know, if I do start to have like a panic attack, she's always there. You know, breathing through the nose, out through the mouth. Just calm yourself down. Yeah, I mean I, you know I, she'll be happy, I'm saying this, she's gotten me through. You know loads of difficult times or just dealing with, you know, with with me mothers passing me, nephew, you know all that stuff like yeah, I mean even this is like therapy for me. You know, just just being able to talk to you. I know, I know I met you, you know, the other day on on Frank's show, but you know it's, it's this kind of like conversation that a lot of people should have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I'm not just males. You know everyone. My wife, I mean my wife is my, my, my, my, my world, she's my rock and but I've, I've put her through it years ago because she has never you know her, her parents, friends, she never gone through anything like that. She never met, you know payments from one, or in a relationship or friends or family that you've suffered from mental health. So sometimes it's difficult for her, or it was difficult for her, to, to, to realize and know what to do, how to explain, or you know, and, and, whereas I would sort of maybe get frustrated with that inwardly, I understood as well, because it's, it's difficult if you don't.
Speaker 2:It's like if I had a plaster on me, my leg, I was it had me like in plaster and I wasn't able to get around, she, she'd be there to help and she could understand because she could see I was struggling. And whereas mental health it's, it's invisible, it's silent unless you express, you know your feelings or you know, people know what you're going through and that. So so, yeah, it's what mentally? Yeah, mental health it's, even though people say, oh, you know, there's, you know, you get more help, there's more understanding. There's still a stigma in certain ways, but it's actually more common now than it used to be. Don't forget, it's actually, with I don't know, say don't forget.
Speaker 2:What I meant to say was mental health is scientific and prudent to be hereditary as well. So my father suffered from mental health issues. My grand, one of my grandfathers did, and no wonder that mental health or problems, especially within this country, was so high, without people realizing, because we had to face the Second World War. But what all those men who went to fight in the war, what they went through, and even the people back home, you know, the bombing and things like that. So so, yeah, I, usually through three generations, you know and I'm happy. So, and everyone I've speak to and I say you know, have you had a family member who suffered with mental health. Yeah, I've not met one person, yes, who says to me no, no parent, no grandparent, no sibling. No, absolutely not. Every one of them have had somewhere. They've suffered in one way and another.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, Well, we're going to bring it full circle. Now back to football. I'm going to ask you a few questions before the end. So, favourite goal.
Speaker 2:That's a tough one, isn't it? I mean, you can go back to Kenny's winning goal in the European Cup final, ak rushing in the Epoch finals Favourite goal. Actually, I do know my favourite goal, and it was top number one, 77, season. I think it was. Clem rolled the ball out to full back and China think it was who hit it from the outside of the boots it was a TBI way crossed it over and it was Terry Mack, I think, who headed it in and it was literally just like Clem. Whoever was right back out of the wing ball into the box bang Terry Mack into the goal. Yeah, that's my favourite.
Speaker 1:So we're going and favourite cup final.
Speaker 2:Well, istanbul, the Tards have been dead, hasn't it? I would even go back to the FA4 games 86 and 89 were special, god, yeah, because I say 77, 78, 81, you know all those finals, but it's got to be Istanbul, yeah.
Speaker 1:Same for me really. Yeah, I mean can't really be 2005,. You know, because AC Milan were one of the best teams in the world and our team should not have beaten them no way they were like the Manchester City of 2005. Without all the charges.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, yeah, that's. You know you never know what might happen to you. Know they're like you know, come on we.
Speaker 1:I think we all know what's going to happen. It's going to be under the rug, but God, yeah, I think so yeah.
Speaker 1:I would really appreciate you coming on. And you know mental health is a big issue you know has been for a very long time. It's just more and more people are coming out now. So, like Keith has said and I've said, you know anyone that's going through something, please, please, go talk to somebody, anybody you know, get those feelings out on there, you know. Just hopefully the best for you. But thanks everyone for listening. Thank you so much, keith, for coming on. It's been a blast and I'm sure I'll see you. I'll talk to you on there on Frank's show. We Frank, frank likes us, so I guess we might have a thirsty gig with Frank.
Speaker 2:We're on, we're on Thursday, but that's kind of just. I'm not talking about business. Anybody who's watching this, whether you're in America, canada, the UK, no matter where it is, because I do have clients you know in different countries that if you're struggling in any way, whether that is from any type of mental health disorder, you know it can be PCSD, ocd, health anxiety, which is probably the most popular, most common at the moment. Anything like that. Please just contact me. You know it's I'm allowed to say the name of the business at all, of course. Yeah, so it's prime anxiety solutions limited. So, yeah, just websites, youtube channel, facebook page, anything like that. The details are on there and you know to speak to some of you people understand and I'm just going to put it through myself.
Speaker 1:I've got a link in the description when the episode goes out. But yeah, these are the links for listening in on the next time. Wow, yet
