Daz and Steve chat with Paul Salt. Paul is a BBC Radio Merseyside presenter, LFC season ticket holder, and Squash player for Northern Crosby.
Today's episode is brought to you by cup connect a group of lifelong reds with one vision to connect Liverpool fans everywhere to a spirit of friendship and togetherness. To build the world's most diverse, most inclusive Liverpool fan group. Join our growing community on our cup Connect Facebook group on Twitter and Instagram. And our website cough connect.com Cup connecting the ultimate Liverpool fan experience brought to you by Liverpool fans for Liverpool fans. Hello Liverpool Connection Podcast & ATX Reds Press. I got Steve with me on today's special guest all the way from Liverpool is Paul, salty salt. And I'll ask you about that in a minute from BBC Radio Merseyside's. How's it going? Yeah, so after all that he explained the nickname then obviously your last name salt. Yeah. And and that's pretty much it really. I mean, I was called it school a little bit. But the nickname really took off when I started on Radio City, which is the independent radio station in Liverpool, which I worked with late 1990s and early norms, hypnosis as well as on the breakfast show there. And the presenter started calling me salty, and it kind of kind of stopped from area and I called it all the time now so there's worse nicknames. Yeah, yes. I know, Steve. Steve and myself have probably been called worse. So. Oh, yeah. So that's a daily basis. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I see people on the internet. So let's get into this poll. And when when to judge their love affair with Liverpool start and when was your first unfair experience? Well, my Liverpool love affair with Liverpool started in the early 1980s. So very much the glory years. I mean, absolutely spoiled rotten, really, with the football we used to watch back in those days. And my dad is a Liverpool fan. So it was kind of natural progression that I'd become one as well. But in the 1980s I was actually living in in Staffordshire. And so even though it's only an hour away on the train to Liverpool, in the 80s I went to away games down in the Midlands as opposed to go into Anfield. So my first game was an away game in 1984. And and it was the treble winning season when we won the league the European Cup and and the milk opposite was known there. And believe it or not, in such a glorious season, we lost to nil to stoke. That was my my first ever game and it was the team of you know, I mean, I was just absolutely in the elements the teymur Rosh dalgliesh Sooners Hansen Grobbelaar, you know absolutely fantastic team who a few weeks after losing to stoke went and beat Roemer in their own backyard to win the European Cup so that there weren't a bad side. And so throughout the 80s, I went to a few games, but they were they were away games. So I saw you know, the great side of bombs Beardsley Aldridge have an 8788, which is still my favorite Liverpool team, even despite all the clocks, the clocks players have done. And then my first outfield game was was 1990. So Kenny, was manager, he October 1990. So Liverpool have just been crowned league champions for for the last time until this year. And we went along Mima, my dad and brother and saw two nil win over Chelsea, which was, which was nice. And so as you said, so what was she comparison? You know, because the squat is absolutely amazing. And I'm, you know, I'm a 70s kid as well. So I saw the 80s you know, the rushes and the Barnes's. And the old school in me is still saying that was like the best team and what's your thoughts? Because I mean, like, this team is amazing. And I'm probably pretty similar to you really, in the I think whenever you look at players or teams from your childhood, you do look back with with just a fondness anyway, because of it was when he was growing up. And obviously you idolize players when you're grown up, whereas when you get into your 40s, like I am, I don't know how old you are. I wouldn't like to feel like that. Guess 5050? Yeah, no way. Yeah. I just had this. Uh, yeah, I just, I just turned 50 in August. Oh, wow. Right. So you're on 44. So, baby, no baby you are when he, my favorite Liverpool team, as I said is the 8788 team. And you look back on that team with the rose tinted glasses, because you know, I was 1112 at that time and idolized every single player. Whereas when you look at this team, now I'm an adult, so I'm even I'm looking at them differently. And maybe, I wouldn't say I've not got affection for them. But you know, I get a bit misty eyed when I talk about the 1980s. So it is really hard to compare. But I think you know that that team, the team of bonds, basically and Aldridge and then Roche just played the most scintillating fantastic football. I mean, I was talking about the first game, I went to an outfield 1990. And john Barnes. I mean, anyone who's who's a bit younger than I was just watched the videos of john Barnes. And he was just for about three or four years, he was the best player in your eye, he really was in terms of, of what he did the amount of goals, he obviously laid on the amount of spectacular goals he scored himself. So I think it is really hard to compare that compare. But when you look at what the team did last season, the clock team, they've got to be they've got to be right up there in terms of both sides, all out attack, you know, the amount of goals and the quality of the goals and the quality of the play. I think there are definitely similarities between the two. Yeah, cuz I mean, obviously, growing up, you know, we had the 40 cards and the posters and everything and be a bit weird how old we are. Now if we had like, you know, Virgil's poster in our bedrooms. And after, I'd have to think about that one. Yeah, yeah, it will be a bit, although I do my legs nine. And I do encourage you to, you know, get all the 40 cards. And I mean, it's not the same for them. But I mean, you're Remember, if you, you grown up over here in the 1980s, Panini, stickers, Panini, were the thing and I managed to fill football 86 it nearly killed me doing it. But it was so hard. Certain players were just impossible to get like, but there was there was an innocence of our time, I wouldn't swap that for the world. I wouldn't, I wouldn't swap it for you know, football now is great for every game being on the telly and, you know, social media, I sometimes do wonder whether actually, we're better for it. I'm not I'm not sure we are just, you know, listening to the radio and getting the results if you weren't at the match was as it was, you know, you were hanging off every word of the commentary and that kind of thing as well. You know, I say, our, our good friend, Jeff golden, and, you know, he was one, but we'll get into a little bit later as well, the pay per view thing is like, I'm not gonna pay that, you know, and, and he, he listened to it on the, on the radio, and he was like, you know, he hasn't listened to the radio games in a while. So, yeah, I mean, you know, I'm the same, you know, my granddad would always listen, if we couldn't go to the mash, we'd listen to it on the radio, you know, and there's just seem to be more descriptive about the game than then if you you know, listen to it on the telly. Yeah, well, I mean, if you look at the game, going back to the 1980s you look at some of the games the word was the old one that wasn't even filmed. In fact, I don't know whether you remember the young molby amazing goal against Manchester United in the League Cup. I don't know if you remember 8586 season and he scored from you know, nearly nearly the halfway line. And it was actually a TV strike on at the time television some dispute over I think was the cameraman are on strike. And, and it was it was described as the loss goal for donkey's years until yamabe, himself actually fired found the tape of the goal in it. And it had been recorded, I think it was on a security camera that actually recorded the goal. And, you know, a whole new journey. Basically, if you haven't been in the ground, no one knew exactly what the goal was, was like and so a whole new generation of fans gotten to appreciate that that goal, which was, which was fantastic. But you know, football wasn't on the telly very much. You know, you have matching the day on the Saturday the, you know, late 80s you get a live game, one live game a week on it on a Sunday. And that was it. And you know, gradually the Premier League was born in 92. And that's when that's when we started seeing more and more games coming onto what we've got. Now really, you know, that was really the genesis of my love for Liverpool is back in 9697 is when you know started being televised a little bit more here in the united states and, and mostly it was Liverpool or Manchester United on the, on the telly every week. So you know, I just gravitated towards Liverpool and thank God I did. But you know, it's, but like you said, you know, before that it was, and even today in Liverpool, it's hard to access some of the away games, you know, and we kind of talked about technology, but it's nice to be able to, if you can go to the way game that you're able to stream it later, you know, on on online, and maybe, you know, see the highlights on YouTube and things like that. And I was wanting to say, because, you know, this, this team now is so interesting, because one of the great byproduct products of the success of the current team is that it's making people go back to the late 80s. And looking at all the archival footage and, and looking at the history of that those teams that were so successful, because, you know, obviously, top is being compared to Shankly, this team is being compared to the, to the 80s teams like you you've done previously, you know, so, it, you're kind of getting a whole new generation of people going back and looking at the history, which is, which is amazing. You know, it just strengthens everybody's love affair for the team. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Liverpool's history is such a rich history, isn't it? I mean, you could you could get like, I kind of I'm kind of envious of people who don't know a lot about the history because they're exploring it for the first time. And that must be amazing. And I mean, you know, I'm an 80s. Kid. So I kind of learned a lot about that the 70s, which are a bit before my time, and then before that, you look at Shankly coming in the club being in the Second Division, and it is a real, you know, it's a it's a fairy tale story. And it's fantastic when you look at all the players that have come through. And you're right, there are parallels, but you know what, when Shankly resigned, I think a lot of people were worried about what would would happen to the team? Well, you know, how that how the team would progress without him. We'll know Bob Paisley came in and would even more. And then then Joe Fagan came in, and it is the transition that the boob room is mythical, but you know, it's true. Joe Fagan came in wanting to travel and that's when I really started watching Liverpool when Joe Fagan was was manager only as a kid, and then Kenny been the first player manager to win the double. And then I I became a regular downfield in the early 1990s that's when I saw it standing on the cop and that kind of thing. So just a little bit before you were you will watch it on metallian 9697. So and that's where it all went wrong. I blame me Well, no, I stopped I started going every home game I mean, I've been obviously on and off you know, when Madonna whatever, but start going on my own as a sort of teenager every own game from the 9293 season which What does we'll probably remember wasn't really very good because it was it was a great shoe next years and the club was in a massive transition. But just to just to go and experience standing on the cup, you know, no one can ever take that away from me you can't you can't do that now and it was the most amazing experience you know, the kind of the smells of the cup, which weren't always typically but but you know, I remember seeing the cop for the first time it's a year that's the sway in in unison and this the sounds that came out of it. It means you know, you can only tell your kids or your grandkids about that now but it was it was amazing to see and amazing to hear as well. Yeah, that's one of the things that I miss you know, haven't been in the cop for a couple games is that I remember standing or sitting there I'm standing in there but just remembering and I wonder how this would have been if it was just all standing you know, how close everybody would feel just the noise of it all and that's you know, hopefully gradually it'll there'll be some standing again soon. Again, that you know, Liverpool are looking to expand the unsealed road and to take the the the capacity of 60,000 understandable because the season ticket waiting list is ridiculous but again back in the early 1990s we issues that we should rock up the ground about I don't know midday maybe normally a three o'clock kickoff and you just stand there Wait for the gates to open pay your money over the turnstile go in and get a good spec on the on the cop that seems so alien to the way football is gone now it's just completely different when you look at people can't get tickets for love no money but back in the 90s Anfield didn't always sell out people you know it wasn't even in the even in the 80s which is obviously a you know a time of hardship for a lot of people the 1980s particularly around here some games didn't didn't sell out you could just turn up pay your money and you you will go in and I suppose that's how footballs check the heck of a lot really over the years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a It's funny, because in my Facebook memories today popped up a picture of me. So five years ago, today was a cop's first home game against Southampton. And it like just reminded me of just the, the history, you know, and the transition of the team since Klopp. has come. But, you know, we love bringing journalists on because we'd like to know, you know, Daz, and I, you know, and he started this podcast, and we always like to, to have guests on that make a living, you know, covering Liverpool Football Club and that are in Liverpool. So can you kind of tell us your journey of how you got to where you are? And is that always something that you wanted to do? And pretty much yeah, I mean, I was a kid growing up, I had two passions. One was was Liverpool, and the other was radio. And I realized pretty early on, I was never going to play for Liverpool. Though, the radio was the was the option really. So I got a job when I was 17 at a commercial radio station, just working on on a sports show that just you know, making the tea editing reports, all that all that kind of stuff, and decided to do a degree did a degree in in immediate studies, which taught me to the age of 20, nearly 21, and then was coming to the end of my degree, and applied for a job at a Radio City, which as I said, is the commercial station in Liverpool, in the sports department, and was lucky enough to get it and which was, which was amazing. So all of a sudden, you know, a kid sort of fresh out of college and I'm reading the sport columns on on Liverpool's big commercial station so it kind of a kind of progressed from there really. I had it I already had a season ticket at Anfield at that point. And so I was going to games anyway, as well as doing them all these bulletins on the radio and all the all the kind of big finals. And over the years, I'd normally go as a reporter, you know, interviewing the managers and the players after the game. So I've been lucky enough to go to you know, the FA Cup Final 2001 the Michael Allen final, the allophones game witness it just, it actually annoys me that that game is completely forgotten. So I've never because of Istanbul and it's one of the most amazing European finals in the history of, of the wafer cup, the Champions League, we know all the European competitions. So we went to we went to Dortmund for that which was a fantastic experience. And then of course, the crowning glory was covering dark night in Istanbul which no one will ever forget. So it's been it's been good I mean I I've sort of graduated more into being a radio presenter now than than reporting on on games anymore represent the sports show at Radio Merseyside for about seven years as well. So it's been it's been brilliant and when you're when you're reporting or when you're talking about the club you love as you all know you know you doing a podcast it's just doesn't feel like work does it once it feels like work I'll stop I don't want to work that egg going going going back to the shank Shankly days a boot room as well. I wanted to talk you know, I always say Bob Paisley came along then Fagan Do you think it's gonna be the same you know the clock to the path? Yeah, it'll be I mean, a lot of people are I suppose naturally saying that you know, Gerrard will be the one that comes in and takes over at some point but I didn't I still think that's really really premature talk when you look at I don't think he's done. He's done a bad job at Rangers don't don't get me wrong. I think he I think he's done okay. But Scottish Football is not really much of a preparation for taking over Liverpool anyway. And when I know Linda's has had a brief go at it before and then ended up coming back to Liverpool but just hearing Linda's speak, it just seems to get it he just seems to get exactly what his job is what the club's all about. I think the most important thing about being a Liverpool manager is getting getting the club and getting the people of the city if you do that, I think you you know you're halfway there obviously results on the pitch you're going to are going to dictate whether you're a success or not. But when you look back at Rafa you know, I look back at I mean and look back with such fondness of Benitez his timer, and I'm failed. It was crazy days, Crazy Nights, particularly in your book. But he has right from the beginning appeared to get what Liverpool was was all about he had he had a connection with the fans. And I think coppers has got that and here in Petland is talking into it and not done that many of them really to be honest. But he, he appears to know how the club ticks So, he would be the natural successor and of course, you know, if you've got someone who is already ingrained in the ways of the club and the way the previous manager works, which is exactly what Paisley had. Paisley had worked on the Shankly see now, Shankly operated, probably taking bits of the way Shankly worked, and then put his own stamp on it. I mean, were two completely different characters. Shankly was, you know, the kind of the great orator, you know, raconter calling what you Willie Paisley didn't matter more than about five words. You couldn't. You couldn't you couldn't get you couldn't get an interview out of Bob Paisley. But it worked. So I think Linda's would appear to be the obvious successor. But whether it doesn't say one, two, I you know, I don't know. I hope it's not gonna happen for for a long, long time. Yeah. Yeah, I just I just gerards not, you know. Like, we've talked before me and Steve, it's, that's more romantic to me would be, you know, Jet art. And then obviously, you're talking about assistant manager maybe being cutter. And that. I just don't see. Because if it didn't work out, I think it would destroy Stevie. Yeah, I think I think you're right on that score. I mean, I don't know what the character would give up is sky worker anyway, to be honest, because he's only he's on a good gig that there's relatively little pressure. You know, you can argue with Gary Neville, everyone denied. But really want to give up on that. But yeah, it would be. I mean, the obvious the obvious reference point, when you're talking about Gerrard being manager is Kenny. Because Kenny, you know, was an arguably still is the greatest player that the club has ever seen Gerrard is is, is on a par with him. Kenny came in as player manager with absolutely no managerial experience and won the Double in the first season. But football's changed a lot since then. And also Kenny, when he came in at Bob Paisley as a kind of consultant for the first couple. That did make a big difference. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't want Gerrard to in any way. tarnishes his legacy. Not either. Maybe, maybe it wouldn't maybe even if it didn't work out, it wouldn't. But he was such a fantastic player. It'd be, it'd be a massive gamble to do. I think she should have gone to LA Galaxy then. Yeah, that's nuts. That's true. But you know, I thought, political American? Well, no, I mean, hey, we've slated that era, because we actually went to Houston and watched him play and we're like, okay, let's, let's scrub that from our memory bank. We don't want to even think about that part of his career. But you know, you think about like Graham soonest when he was a manager, I think for a lot of people that taints his legacy a little bit as a as a player, because of the way he he managed the team afterwards. And I think we're kind of scared that we don't want that to happen to Gerard, you know, yeah, I mean, as soon as one is we could probably do an entire hour just talking about soon. And what happened? I'm sure you're aware when he was manager about him? selling his story tell you Yeah, yeah, I didn't want to say that part. But you know, yeah, we don't like to talk about rounds are really good. And I very, I very much call I, I kind of categorize it compartmentalize soon as the player with soon as the manager, and soon as the player was just the most phenomenal midfield I mean, if builder, in the Premier League now eppp worth in excess of 100 million pounds, there's absolutely no doubt about it. And I think he acknowledges now that he made a lot of mistakes as managing not just a mistake, I'll just refer to that. But he, he tried, he tried to change the club, too quickly. He got rid or he moved on a lot of players that still had a bit to give and try to change things perhaps but but not before they needed as soon as it is, but it too quickly. And he did bring through a lot of you know, good young players. And I think in some ways he was ahead of his time in terms of diet and that kind of thing. But it just it just didn't work out he thought and this this is a parallel with Gerrard. He thought that what worked at Glasgow Rangers would work at Liverpool, but it north of the border in Scotland, those Rangers and Celtic for brief time in the 80s, there was Aberdeen and Dundee United. But here, here, there's obviously you know, you're talking about six or seven clubs who are all competing. So it's completely and I think soon as talk soon as has actually said, I've read his book, he actually said it was the right job at the wrong time. Because I came into Liverpool at a time where, you know, it wasn't just going to be carry on, where we've left off, there needed to be changes to be made, because the team was reaching the end of its shelf life. Whereas anyone who comes in taking over from clock you would hope, you know, the club will still be in a very good, I think clop is the kind of guy that is constantly thinking ahead. So even if even if he's not going to be the manager, I think he wants to safeguard the future of the club, because that's the kind of bloke he is. So if you could just take over, you know, yeah, well, yeah, I I just wished as soon as he was on the squad after Pickford did what he did to Van Dyck, I would like to see what soon as would have would have taken care of that. Yeah. I mean, there's some legendary stories about soon as the player in terms of going in going in hard, shall we say on down sir. Challenges he took? The problem is he probably wouldn't. I don't know how long he'd last on the pitch and some game punches he put in and, and that kind of thing. But yeah, I mean, he, he would still get in my, my all time Liverpool team. Greg. He was he was good as a midfielder. Yeah, I can't see soon as being on on the pitch for more than two minutes. That way, you know, var is going and the referee must go in? And look, yeah, might as well get on to that. And, you know, we we've already adds a couple of like, insane. A bit of time, both rarely, because it's, you know, the red, Michael Oliver should should have seen the techfoot incidents, and an already red carded and so that then, you know, going off to var again, you know, as, as we say the the two men in a van you know, I just, I'm still trying to grasp, like, how come they didn't go through the whole, you know, they did one and two, that they didn't go to the third one, which would be, you know, looking at the tunnel. And and then, you know, obviously, yesterday that was a joke as well, I. And I'm not not sensing that there's like the referee on var lads aren't getting their story straight. Yeah. The thing that is frustrating about VR, is the death. There is no the explanations are muddied. So there is no real I think, if they came out, I mean, this isn't this is an old argument, even before they are when they're talking about referees, if referees came out with explain their decision, I think people would be a lot more. They'd be happier with it, they'd accept it a lot easier. But that's been made even worse now, by the fact that you've got the we don't know the process, really, we don't really understand how they're, they're coming to the conclusions they come into it. I mean, the Pickford one, which I think I try not get angry about football anymore, because I'm a man in my 40s. When I was a kid, I used to cry, you know, but now and the book last Saturday, I was absolutely fuming. Because it was just ludicrous. And for them to say that with the vandyke injury, they are just checking for the off side. They didn't check for the challenge. What did they not do? They don't know the rules of football that, you know, once once the game has stopped, you can still get set off. It's, you know, if you and I were playing football, and we were on opposing sides, and we walked off at the final whistle, and I punched you in the face, the referee can still send me off. That's that's a basic part of football. And it was almost like that. It's almost like they didn't know the rules, which is ludicrous. But if they then came out after and explained the decision making process, I think, again, like like yesterday's with the penalty, explain it to us, because as it is, we had rumors going around that he hadn't checked the tackle. He'd only checked whether it was inside or outside the box. And then later on or much of the day over here. They then said, Oh, no, no, they did check the tattle as well. Which, which is it you're making up as you go along that we can't keep up with this. And that's, that's the big problem I have with it. They are making it up as they go along. Yeah, like, you know, go ahead, does it I didn't even know about, you know, like the penalty decision yesterday. Whether your thoughts on the line. I've never heard of that before. Like, yeah, so it puts on the line. The line belongs to the penalty area, the same as the byline belongs to the pitch. So unless the volca you know, if a ball goes completely over the line is out. Otherwise it says so if you have one foot on the line of the penalty area, and you fouled it's a penalty, because you are technically in the box. I mean, looking at I've watched it about 10 times. It's It's It's Matt, it's marginal, isn't it? It's marginal, whether it is for is on the line. But then again, you're even you don't get into what it is. It wasn't a file in the first place. Yeah. So that's my main objective, Paul to this, the way that England is trying to implement the var system, because a penalty is such a huge decision, right? So when you as the referee in charge of the game, when do you want to be involved in that decision? So it doesn't take that long to go look at the screen and say, that wasn't a file, or you're we're looking at all sides. But then I'm looking at the replays, oh, I don't think that was a file. But he should be the final decision maker and for them to make decisions up at the, you know, two hours away, wherever the two minute event like desert said, to make the decision that affects the game on the pitch, and then you as a ref not being involved in that decision. That to me is is ludicrous. Right? Because you have the whistle, you're you should have control of that game. And if, if they're right, then they're right. But at least I think that would alleviate a lot of the controversy that we all have about the system. If they actually put eyes on the play, right? Yeah, well, when you know, I agree when var came in? Do you remember they never ever, ever went to check the monitor, never alone. So all down to whoever was in Stockley Park, which is where it is to say, and gone, you've made a mess of this here, you need to overturn your decision, whether it be a penalty, or whatever it was, then there was that many mistakes being made that then all of a sudden the referees did and go to the monitor to check for themselves. Now. I think I see more logic and doing it that way. Because the the referee on the pitch is still taking responsibility, right? Isn't that he's making as opposed to almost it being? Oh, well, I'm not taking any ownership at this. Now you can decide down in your down south. So I get it from that point of view. But now we appear to have gone back to them not using the monitors again. Because last yesterday's game was a prime example of I tell you what, just go and have a quick look at the monitor and then decide a whether that was in the box or not, and be whether it was a foul now for them not to be and is it saying that? They mustn't I still don't know whether they did look at whether it was a foul? Oh, no, I'm not. I don't think they did. Because, you know, on off sides and that play whether his foot was on the line? You really can't argue because it's it's that that technology, right? But it's the the other things where where your opinion matters, and I think being at the at the pitch is supposed to be a clear and obvious error. Yeah, right. And they don't, without going to the pitch side monitor you you're never gonna know you're just taking somebody else's word. And last year they had, because you're right, the first year they, they didn't even have the option to look at it on the sideline last year that had the option. And very minimal, I think maybe less than three times did any ref in the whole season, go to the pitch side to look. And which is a travesty, because you have the opportunity to to take your time everybody wants it. Right. And you guys both know that there were many decisions even last year that if the the referee on the pitch would have gone and taken a look that would have been reversed. And I don't know why they they if there is just egotistical, you know, or they don't want to, you know, make their friends back at the van look bad. I just don't understand what it is. No, I mean, you mentioned earlier about I think the problem the var the concept of AR is to eradicate errors, right, taking the example last week of the Darby. Now, the offside. You say that, you know, it's open and short. That's just a matter of fact, well, I again, I've watched, I still can't see how he's offside. Not Not Not clearly offside to me, be a goal. And so even without var last week, we would have won the derby three, two. And that would have been a no, I would say this, wouldn't I that would have been a fairer result than what we got with VR VR. That's my problem with VR. It's not making things better. It's actually making things worse. And the offside situation where you've got toenails and armpits offside and all that kind of stuff. That's not, that's not what football is all about, you can't celebrate a goal anymore. Because you know, you saw, I mean, the solid one, the solid one last night, the brilliant and correctly ruled out, but I kind of laptop and when when Georgia scored, I waited to make sure it wasn't a car coming, right. And somebody you know, when you go the match, obviously I'm not playing the match. But when you go the match, it's even worse because you're in the ground and there's a low da You know, you're all together and you kind of we used to pile on all the time. And that's when I was standing there going I in a minute. We'll do it in a minute. So football, football is about spontaneity about the joy of the moment, not the joy of waiting two minutes before finding out whether it's a goal and I know this is alien to a lot of American listeners, but I watch a lot of cricket. And what I what I love about cricket is that they have they have the decision review system DRS is called and okay that that is more matters of fact that is more whether someone's caught it or whether it's like before wicked or whatever. But what I love about it is you can hear the third umpire in the stand talking to the umpire the same rupee, you hear the communication going on between the referee or the umpire on the pitch, and whoever's in the stand or wherever they may be reviewing every decision. Would it not help us as TV viewers to hear the conversation between Stockley Park and the referee on the pitch? At least? What we would have got more of appreciation of what was going on Huawei? Of course, yeah, well, it bolts but you know, that they don't want us to hear what they're talking about, you know, because, obviously, like I said, they're not on the same page. I just don't understand. And yeah, I do wish they would mic off the breath. And on the lads in the vamp, cuz Yeah, it's frustrating because I you even saw jata lock into the sideline like, Can I celebrate? Is it is it a goal? You know, a man not happens when the players not celebrating? You know, if the fans were in the stadium? The fans are just Yeah, like you said, Paul, just be looking around at each other like, do we jump up now? Or do we wait, what what's going on? Then you look like a write test. When you jump off. I look at I test when I jumped up in front of me kids, the kids looked at me like it's no, it's not a goal task. It's not a goal. Though it says we live in like, times, as well as in the ground is so badly communicated, because I'm feeling hasn't got a big screen. So it's even worse is when you're looking around, go watch. It's not even you're not even being told what's going on. So everyone's standing there. It's just the whole thing. I i understand the concept behind it. But the problem is, it's being operated by fools. And that's that's the main issue with it. And I'd still love for it to be scrapped. It's not going to be obviously but I'd love for it to be. I think also like the var people I don't think I've ever played football in their lives. No. And I think that I like Bob Carter said, Get get the x referees in there. And I show you some x players in there. Why? Why do they have to be referees just get x players have a panel of x players that are you know that that have played the game and they know what's a foul and what's not a foul. I'm atonium. So the issue the x players is there going to be I'll have allegiances, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there isn't an X player in the country that wouldn't have. And you could say, well, they don't. They don't, you know, officiate those games involving any club they play for, but then you'll have accusations of Yeah, but you've made this decision because you're affecting how that affected your club in the table and all that kind of thing. So it's not, it's not ideal. It just needs to be. I think it needs to be clear. And then the offside situation definitely needs sorting out because, you know, goals are being disallowed. That shouldn't be last week, and as soon were more than that. Yeah, I mean, we could talk about this and you know, there's there's no easy solution, because seems like the rest of the world can implement this technology. But England has, has had a problem, you know, ever since it's been entered into the Premier League and they need to work on it because it shouldn't be that controversial every weekend, week out. I mean, even the call with the Manchester United McGuire against us to quit, you know, that's it. seems we've seen beige on. We've seen days john Levin recalled for for penalties have not even half as worse as that one was so anyway, yeah, we it's frustrating, right. So can you kind of give me your thoughts of the project? Big Picture that's obviously not going through, but also the proposed, you know, the Super League for for the Champions League. So can you kind of, maybe give us what you've been hearing or what your perspective was on both of those situations? Well, yeah, they came very close together in they think, the project, big picture. Start with that one, I think, you know, Liverpool and Manchester United were allegedly, they're kind of authors of that Liverpool, a appears more than the Manchester United. You read those proposing you go ha, come on, well, this is going a bit far. You know, what do you what do you want to buy here? But then you look at it and you think I think they knew when they put in those proposals that they get rejected? I think what they're they're trying to do is get a middle ground between what we've got at the moment. And those proposals, there's no doubt about it that the big clubs want more of a share of the pie. So you think famously, john W. Henry, when he took over at Anfield couldn't believe was aghast that Huddersfield got the same share. He writes money as Liverpool dead and you know, you can eat because I think the argument was, who in America is watching Huddersfield? And so you can kind of see the point. But that's they've got to be careful that they don't ruin the product, as they say by making it more like, you know, people don't watch Bundesliga as much anymore because by Munich winning every year, you don't want you don't want English football to be in a situation where it's not competitive. You want the little man to beat the big man out again, probably not seven to Villa par. But you. You want you want that kind of competitiveness. So it's interesting that Rick Perry was involved in it as well. He was obviously formula exactly involved in charge of the Football League now. But I think I think that was a sort of calculated proposal to say, look, we need some kind of change. This is outrageous and will not go through. But we need you to meet us halfway. I mean, I certainly I don't, I can't see anyone voting for the well, I can't see most of the members voting for the club to go down to 18 teams, for example, the league to go down to 18 teams, because you're not going to get the small clubs vote for that. And as it is, at the moment, the voting structure needs 14 clubs to vote for anything. So I think there will be there will be some reform but hopefully, not so outlandish. To all the power is with the big clubs because you know, even as a Liverpool fan, I don't I don't think that's that's right. And it's almost like a it's a sweet, it was a sweetener for the Football League clubs, wasn't it? We'll give you all this. And in return for having all the power. That's not great for English football at all. I don't think but you know that, like you alluded to the you know, john W. Henry, when he bought the club. And he looked at the finances in the Premier League, he saw the inequities. And he's been working on this ever since for the last 10 years. This was like the 18th version of this proposal, right? That supposedly wasn't supposed to be public. But do you think it could also have been a ploy to get the government to get off their ass to help you know, they, they've been talking about helping but they haven't really done anything to help these smaller clubs, you know, stay in existence? Yeah, I mean, I'm quite passionate about sort of lower league football in this country as well. And non league football you know, you go right the way around this area. We've also got Liverpool and Everton we've got we've got tram there who are now in in Ligue two, eight and eight brands into onto tram they're further down and about a five minute walk away from a club called marine and marine can still have fans in their limited I think, to 600 fans, but if anything happened to them, this is a club that, uh, you know, I'm delivering food parcels to people in the Crosby community, where where I live, so anything happens to those kind of clubs. You're ripping out the heart of the community. We've seen it with Barry recently. You know, aren't you can't afford to lose these clubs. So I absolutely agree. The government does need to do more. And you know, you've been given the comparison with the big clubs health in the small clubs. Well, if it you know, you wouldn't get a big supermarket like a Tesco or Sainsbury's helping the corner shop, but football, different football, you know, less so now but back in the day, these small clubs were the ones that were producing the players emotion is my favorite player of all time he came from Chester just down the road. You know, where would in Russia been without, without Chester even modern day body styling on nonleague. So you've got, you've got to be so careful, you kill these clubs off and you'll you're killing off. And a major part of English football. And what makes us is unique is that we've got this pyramid, and this pyramid is the envy of the world. Really? Yeah, it doesn't really, we've got a pyramid like we've got. And if you kill that off, you're you're killing off English football. But I think playing devil's advocate that project big picture was really trying to strengthen and bring in all four levels of the pyramid together, you know, under one jurisdiction, and helping those lower close, but, you know, I understand one club, one vote and, and everything so, but it'll be interesting to see how it, you know, is formalized going forward? Because I don't think we've heard the last of it, you know, and, and then segwaying into the Champions League teams, you know, trying to to form this other competition. Now, I just, I don't know how, I don't know how that would even get off the ground. I really don't. And you know, what, would you would you be bothered? Maybe you would you be bothered with football anymore? If Liverpool left the Premier League and win the European Super League? I think the great thing about watching Liverpool in Europe is that each occasion is a unique occasion. The Barcelona game a couple of years back, you know, that wouldn't that wouldn't have been the same if it was a European Super League game would it did the whole point is Liverpool can go 10 years longer without playing Barcelona without playing Brown. Yeah, and they come out of the hat in the Champions League. And that's what makes it amazing. Because it doesn't happen all the time. If you start saying they're playing each other twice a year. Soccer playoffs wasn't there as well, whatever, do that you're completely you're killing you're killing What is unique about European football is it's not how and it's you can get any well I mean, that's one of the lure of watching the pic in the balls out of the the thing right to see who you get to play and, and think of all these other matchups that you can Oh, man, we get to play this team. We haven't played them since, you know 2007 and then and so that's you really lose a lot of that romanticism about the whole competition, I think. Yeah, look at it. Look at the ix game. Bill pull on Play dioxins that the 1960s I think it was so the fact you know, I actually a great club with great European pedigree Liverpool against ix. You know, in the European corpus, as I still call it is amazing. Liverpool, whether I actually even got in but Liverpool are going to tie x in the in the European Super League. It's not It's not for me, and I just think it The problem is that most of the countries in Europe haven't got a league like we've gone. So you know, Italy, you've a run away with it. Germany Byam run away with it, even Spain, Real Madrid, Barcelona, they haven't got that unique sort of competitive pneus that we've got, and as much money as the Premier League makes the Premier League. I think, I think a lot of clubs have got to be careful what they wish for really. Yeah, so you don't want to go down that rabbit hole. That like like you say, I mean, I could imagine, you know, if funds were allowed to go to the ix box, how you know, just just spending the day in Holland and all that. It's just that's why I'm hoping when fans do come back that fans have a bit more say in everything, you know, because football without fans is a bit crap in it is I know that it's so much sometimes like you're watching a chain in much. You know, you know, you were saying to me I think I can't remember what was on air and what was offered now but I think you say off air that you just watch Liverpool games now and I I kind of I kind of get that now because a lot of these games I mean, I had the wolves Newcastle game on before we started it was dreadful. It was absolutely awful. I mean, even with that fake crowd noise which actually drove me I did it it was like watching a glorified training session. And you just it just makes you realize how important the fans are to football particularly when you look at what's been happening with the results as well if you notice down with the motorway, Winston are now because he hasn't got the home fans behind them putting pressure on the referee and also making their players perform better, you know, in the and I'm sure Liverpool have had to to deal with that. You know, I mean, Liverpool have actually done all right. Yes, so far this season, but it still must be quite hard for those players to adjust to and also score a goal and then hear Blur's song to blaring over the a dog Madden as well. You know Yeah, I mentioned in a previous podcast because You know we're we're behind Chelsea is what at a game unbeaten streak at home. And I said, Man if we if we go through this season not losing at home with this type of situation, what an achievement that would be because you know we get so much a kick in the ass from the you know the the fans there at Anfield is like man if we if we don't drop it if we don't have to get lost at home it'd be amazing this season because you see the results all across the league. Yeah, I mean, look at that look at the city result the other week against like that I was at the Antioch wasn't it? And yeah, I mean, the whole thing is just me, I suppose in a way, what what makes it quite enjoyable is that it's so off its head. And these results are just all over the place at the moment. So there's that excitement, but it also makes you realize that this is going to be like no other season we've ever experienced. And you know, I mean, other than that they're not there for God. So yeah, well, you know, you're not is already dropped eight points. That's more points than we've dropped at home in three years. So it just kind of puts it in perspective. Yeah. Remember, Steve that back? Drive. It was another dreadful game yesterday. Talking about training sessions that unite Chelsea Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Diet, and they've been builders, you know, clash of the times to massive clubs going head to head. There was just wonderful. Yeah, we just live in in a different time. I mean, you know, up until Christmas, we're going to play matches every three, four days. That's Matt. That's Matt. And I think I think it's taken its toll a bit already. I mean, watching that game yesterday, I certainly thought that Liverpool were looks a little bit laggy at times, and you've got to factor in that we played ix just a few days before where Sheffield United on a free week. You know, and it just, it's gonna, you know, another game midweek, another game next week. And it's kind of if you're in Europe, it's hard anyway, in a normal season. Take away the fact that you know, we are cramming games in and it's going to take its toll. You know, he's going to have to rotate a fair bit. Yeah. Well, I think on Tuesday, you're going to see the likes of Jones Williams, the Reese Williams as well comment on because you're just I mean, we have a small squad Anyway, you know, I do I just don't see clock like minamino are probably start, you know, which has gotten chickadee. So I mean, that that's good for them. You know, they'll get games because we're out of the League Cup, obviously. But yeah, it's just going to be crazy. Because, you know, you brought up that that city result with Leicester. And then the week later, Leicester got beat three nil. Yeah, you know, so yeah, it's just madness. Yeah. But, you know, I'm happy that Everton lost today. Southampton look good as well. But it receives teams that you wouldn't necessarily think again it like Vela. You know, they were points from relegation last season, and they've got a good run. But that's come come to an end, you know, is this madness? I think I still think Can I think literally or either season Famous last words, and there's a long way to go, but they look like they've done well in the transfer market. And then I know on Friday, they weren't great. But from what I've seen them, they look a decent decent side leads. I mean, these were, I know their last two walls, but they they look like they they're going to be there although I think they'll be comfortably mid table, you know, and Uriah samten they played Everton off the park today again, what I saw Danny ings still still have a little bit tinge of regret. Whenever I say Danny, he is just such a solid, solid player. If we could have kept him as a squad player, he wouldn't have asked Andy I really do believe that it's such a shame that we we couldn't keep him Yeah, definitely. I Paul as we're as we're getting towards the back end of our session today I have some questions that are coming in live from some some of our listeners and viewers so ready for a couple of questions. I'll start off serious. The serious one is from our buddy lane star. considering his outstanding scoring and assists records solid tends to divide fans for how good he is. Do you see him in your top five greatest attacking players ever for Liverpool? Five greatest attacking players. I whether he's in the top five at the moment he wouldn't be wouldn't be far off it. I mean, I don't. By the way, I'll make it quite clear. He doesn't divide opinion with me at all. Absolutely brilliant and You know what, he was getting sick again yesterday, you know for the one where he hit the post. He is a goalscorer, okay? He's not an hour and out center forward I'm kind of you know the generation of em rushing john Aldridge tell the emotion john all these were selfish. They just wanted to score goals. And he he can be a bit selfish, but I guarantee he gets more goals as a result of being selfish than being on selfish. I got a problem with Santa. So anyone who's got a problem with Mohammed Salah needs to give their adorable because I just don't know I've got a problem with Paul. No solid. He's not a poacher, right in the traditional sense of a striker getting into positions. And so he has to work for his goals. He's not getting anything easy either, right? No, he's not a poacher. But then Liverpool don't play right like they are in the team. That's the whole point. And that's what that's why I don't think he was as bothered about Bruce to go in because Brewster is going to be a poacher more than anything else. For me, no is more withdrawn than the two players come in either side of him. So that's why you don't really need it sort of six yard box sniffer, as we used to say, All right. Well, I saw this amazing for me. Yeah, amazing. Okay, here's one that's not so serious. Have you ever thought about writing a book? Well, people have some sometimes people have said, Oh, you could write a book about you know, following Liverpool all these years and that kind of thing. So it's kind of crossed my mind. But there's a lot of there's a lot of good books about Liverpool out there. And I just be a bit a bit worried. I didn't know what to buy. Because there's so I mean, I know you bought UHF on the other week didn't Yeah, he's. He's a great writer. I do actually feature in his last book, which is the champions on the lockdown one video. He asked me to do a little bit enough. But yeah, there's so much choice A Liverpool books that the market is almost to the point now where it's flooded. So maybe maybe when I'm old and gray, Mike, they're right in a pinch of salt or something like that. Their day, there we go. There's a good title. We'll be glad to write a afterward or forward for you, if you need. Last question from our regular listeners. What are your views on the safety of fans being allowed back into the stadiums and any idea when they may occur? Well, I've got no idea when it may occur, because sadly, um, well, thankfully, I'm not in for the government. And but i think i think it's farcical that we're in a situation at the moment where there were cinemas not that far away from here. Certainly there's a couple over the water I don't have on this side. But over the water. There was cinemas screening the Merseyside Derby. So you've got people going into a cinema to watch a football match that is deemed not safe for people to go and sit outside and watch actually in the stadium got that completely wrecked my head. I don't understand how that works. So I think they could certainly have a socially distance crowd back in Premier League stadiums. without too much hassle. I think the transport is probably the biggest problem with it, how people get to the ground and would they all be on buses or trains or whatever, together. But even if you had a few 1000 and Anfield, I don't I don't really see you'd be well apart, socially distant, I don't really see how that will be an issue. But for some reason, they don't want to they don't want to give that image there, I get that impression. So I won't be before Christmas and I don't know when it will be after Christmas To be fair, you know, that kind of ties back into the VR thing where if they just had a standard process and it was followed every game at every location, then I think a lot of people would be more accepting of it. Right? So we have the same situation here in Austin where they they're playing college football games and there's fans there. The kids leagues are all playing but they have not allowed them the men's league to resume and so why is it good for one group of people and not for the other? And so I think it is kind of has that the same situation over there and over here is like we if there was a consistent message right put forth by by the leaders I think everybody would be able to to come together and then work for because I know there's a lot of division in Liverpool right now. You know with the you know things closing as well. So yeah, I still lack of clarity that I think is is the big book bear of a lot of people because in this country, non league teams below a certain level can still have funds in there still up to 600 in but then we'll get to I don't know whether you're familiar with the non Liga but National League north is So south pole or a national league north, so they're not allowed any fans in but your level of football where that is virtually that the primary source of income and money are only source of income really. So they've got to play games with absolutely no fans so that the government have had to give them some kind of money because at that level, if you haven't got funds coming in it, it isn't really worth playing. It's not there's no and even even for league to League One Club's really difficult they're making a bit of money back from streaming the games. And it's bigger than 15 pound by the way. But But there has to be but you know, it's not the same they're getting nowhere near the income they would normally get be getting from season ticket or people coming back in the ground so it's a it's more of a problem at that level is the Premier League because a lot of Premier League clubs that the actual gate money is a drop in the ocean compared to what they're making from the TV companies not compensate. Okay, last question from the guys. And Bob if you had unlimited transfer Kitty, and Bob Bay or Highland and he goes on cold Do you know I was watching them and the other night when they played in i didn't i didn't record much. I'm gonna go Harland. Okay. A lot cheaper as well. Are you twice? Do you know what the one that point? I don't think clock would have someone like him. But anyway, I just don't say he is a bit like saying would you would you want Neymar I don't go anywhere near a mile. They soak too much. You don't put the you've got to work if you're playing for club. Um, yeah. But yeah, I just think it will on balance suggestion room as well. You know, I mean, he and backpay is gonna come in and you know, the wage structure, then you're gonna get older players, you know, going, I want some of that. It just, you know, clubs doing it. Right. You know, even though like, everybody's like, Ah, you know, now we've got the Nike deal. Now, like with mbappe pay, you know, I'll put two and two together that you know, it's wishful thinking on some people's part, but I just think it wouldn't be a fit. No, I don't I don't think he would i don't i don't think he as I say it only works hard enough. When you've got you look at some someone like firmino who okay his goalscoring record is not great at the moment, but you look at the that's what he wants from the player. And that's why I was made up with jata because I just I was like Joshua walls, you know, 45 million is what it could rise to that's that's a lot of money. But you know what, in this day and age, Liverpool needed a player like the reliance on the front three, we've seen what's happened with Van Dyck in terms of over relying on a player and then not having the backup from what I've seen in Georgia since he signed as well. He looks a perfect fit, he can play left right he can play central if he needs to. He's he's got experience of the Premier League already. His goalscoring record revolves is pretty decent. So I was absolutely delighted when we got it and these young as well you know, and then get on test you know that 20 mil for Tiago is just a steal I don't know how Michael Edwards does this. I just don't he must have something on their families Yeah, that could well be the deal of the decade couldn't it deal of a century whatever you want to call it? Because and again, I just hope he's not going to be in and out of the team with injuries. I mean, you know, we couldn't know what happened against but the two games he's played I mean, the Darby that second half. Anyone who has got a room even the remotest interest in football must have been picked per in that performance it was just it what he was doing with the you know, the tightest his faces he gets out of them and and the no look pass he's always taking the victory with it. Yeah. Yeah, he some player as well a Chelsea match, you know, came on the second half 45 minutes is probably one of the most beautiful like, you know, performances I've seen in a while. He just he glides, you just glides and he always wants the ball, which is really good. He's just like, give me the ball and I'll sort you out you know, I mean, this. This team just looks brilliant. And you know, obviously Virgil being out for the rest of the season. That's that's a big big blow that for being Oh, doing doing fantastic. We just have to wrap the you know, all three of them and cotton wool, specially matted. Just well. Yeah, I mean, Matt is just I think he's just he is Glassman his knee I think he is always going to pick up so many injuries. The what the what I think it's worth mentioning Henderson as well, just because I mean certainly in that Darby. I thought the way him and Tiago works in the field together. They just didn't debate on the same wavelength. And Anderson has improved so much the last few years as a cat leader, but also you know, every every ball is positive ball and I think he used to get criticized along the coffers too many sideways passes. He doesn't. He doesn't do that. I thought he was brilliant again against Sheffield United with without him in that midfield, we are a lot poorer. And I'll tell you what you see when he doesn't play. And he just started picking up a few injuries. That's the only thing that concerns me about this. And he, we need to keep him fit. Especially if you haven't got the leader at the back with Van Dyck. You need the captain on the field, don't you more than ever? Yeah, I think if hando played against feller, I don't think you know, we might have we might have lost but it sure as hell wouldn't have been seven to know, bring it to the telly bring him on, bring him on. But he because he was on the bench. clearly wasn't fit, which makes you wonder why he's on the bench in the first place. But anyway, you know, because I go Gomez needed to be hooked out of that game before he actually was and, and even put Henderson on and I think for BTO could have been put back into the defense earlier on, you know, so there was various options that are just to just to get someone with a bit of leadership on the field because they it was just a madness game of football I've ever seen in my life ever. I probably would. Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen three deflected goals ever go in. I know. You just knew it was an hour day, you know, just one. Where at the end, I just was laughing. I couldn't be pissed off. I just started laughing like, wow, this this is just daft. Yeah. Let's hope there's no more like that, though. I mean, for other teams or not for us. Yeah, yeah, definitely. But, uh, Steve namana. This has been brilliant, I guess to as we close up. What are your plans here the next few weeks as we lead into the holidays? Well, I've already got an Amen. professionally. Yeah. You know, on the on the radio shot, like special things coming up. And well, the moment I mean, we are just the thing is we're working in probably a bit like you guys, you know, do the podcast at the moment in radio, you know, I do a daily radio show. So it's finding new angles to sort of talk about things. I mean, I do a lot of stuff, obviously, because I'm not just doing sports, I'm doing them. So I'm using current affairs. So you're talking about COVID-19 all the time. And it's actually really quite draining. And it's short for lesson two. So you're trying to you're trying to find angles, new angles, on stories, you know, different ways of treating stories, that kind of thing, just so it doesn't get monotonous and boring. So it's quite it's quite a challenge at times, actually. And, and the same, the same with the football because I think, you know, with the football as well, you people might be listening a bit more because they're at home more. So you you want to you want to try and come up with different ways of, of treating those kinds of stories. Well, it's been great doing stories like the food bank story, you know, we've covered that we covered obviously, the Superleague story. We covered the the the deal, the story about the Premier League, sort of having major structural changes. So the good thing about football on Merseyside is it's constantly evolving. It's constantly changing. And it's great to cover it. It really is. For our viewers and listeners that want to check out your radio show. Can you tell us how to we can listen and at what time of the day that comes on? Yeah, it's BBC Radio Merseyside. And there's something called the BBC sounds app. So if you search for BBC sounds in the App Store, that gives you all the BBC stations in the country. And it'll give you all the ones with loads of football on as well. It's actually a really good app to have. And then BBC Radio Merseyside is the station for Liverpool and surrounding area. So you find that and I'm on from two till six in the afternoon. weekdays, but not this week, because I forgot she's half turn the switch off. But yeah, yeah. So that's, that's how you can listen to all the BBC website as well. Okay. Do you live streaming those shows as well? Are those those? Yeah. But also for a month as well. So you there's a catch of? Okay, yeah, somehow I got involved with Frank Carlisle's radio show. Yeah, I've been on. I've been on like a, I've been on a show a couple times. And, and so like, I don't know how that happened. But it's fun because I really, I get to stay up to speed on what's happening in Liverpool. So when we have guests on, you know, I'm, I'm kind of speaking from a place that I know, versus just guessing, you know, so it's been kind of fun. Yeah. I've not seen front for years actually. Frank's big on history. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we're gonna have him on the podcast one of these days to talk of some liberals. History for sure. Oh, dot dot dot podcast. It'll be about 26 hours long. He could talk for sure. That's all we got was a guy. I know. He's a good guy though. He's a good guy. Maybe we'll just keep Francine we'll just keep his daughter on the show is in the lead. Well, Paul, this has been great. I you know, it's been a pleasure, you know, meeting you and getting to know you a little bit better. And hopefully, they you can come back in the future and, and discuss some more topics with us. Sure. Yeah. No, it's really well, thanks very much for inviting me on. Yeah, hopefully, you know, when we're able to travel will be over there. And I want to get you know, all the guests that that we've asked from Liverpool down the pub and you know, get a get a nice Chuck going on a big old photo session. be great. Yeah, we'll go down. Well, I was going to see the corpse down. That's why I'm saving me lever for that. That we had we had Paul trimarco on from the articles and he has been such a good friend of me personally, you know, in the last five years, and so yeah, we're, we're looking forward to come out there and just having pints with everybody that's been on our podcast. Oh, fun. tell you I love the alcohol I used to go into before I had kids and just to go straight to the game. I saw pints in the arkells. Yeah, definitely. Well, Paul, thank you again for coming on, man. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Have a good one.