Football and Music 1:1 with Dub Pistols' Barry Ashworth

Picture yourself amidst the thrilling atmosphere of Anfield during the 70s and 80s, as we sit down with Barry Ashworth, founder of the Dub Pistols and a die-hard Liverpool fan. Diving deep into his memories, Barry paints a vivid picture of what it was like being a devoted supporter during Liverpool's golden era. Offering a distinctive perspective, he also discusses his family's unwavering loyalty to the iconic team, shining light on the evolution of football fandom over the decades. 

Finally, the spotlight falls on Barry's musical journey with the Dub Pistols, from DJing to band formation. We touch on the big beat genre's influence, the band's deal with Geffen Records, and how the late Terry Hall of The Specials impacted Barry's musical direction. Get ready for Barry's exciting future plans, and his pick for the top three festival acts. Whether you're a Liverpool fan or a music enthusiast, this episode is not to be missed!

https://dubpistolsmusic.co.uk/
https://www.tonicmusic.co.uk/

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

Hi everyone and welcome to another edition of the Liverpool Connection podcast. I am Daza this is the StoryPod, and today one of my favourites, to be honest, and I never knew he was a Liverpool supporter, but I've been into the dance music, for God. I'm 53 this year, so probably going on like 36, 37 years. So I'm, you know, chuffed the best to get this lad on, but it's Barry Ashworth from the Dub Pistols. Barry, welcome, really, really chuffed the best that you're on and I'm chuffed the best that you're the Liverpool supporter as well.

Speaker 2: 0:54

Yeah, no, I mean it's religion and you know it's. You know Liverpool I mean. As you get older you get slightly less emotional about it all. But you know, growing up it was very much, I guess, like you know your horoscope. Almost it was like your moves were definitely tied into the results and the way your team have been performing. You know what I mean and it you know I used to. You know I used to use to ruin my week if we were bad. You know, you know. So, yeah, it's. You know football is a religion. You know what I mean and being part of a Liverpool family is massive, you know, and I guess it's been some of you.

Speaker 2: 1:37

We've been very lucky over the years. You know, because I'm 57, like you said. So I went through that first big, massive. You know, when we were very, very, very successful before the Graham Sunnis era. You know what I mean. So, which was kind of growing up in London that was, my family were all scouts, which is why I'm a Liverpool supporter. The first thing that we would done as a kid would my name would turn up at the hospital and you were put into a red shirt. You know, I mean that's. It's that she was fanatical about Liverpool. So all my brothers, all my family, everybody. There is no choice. I think my mum's been married three times and two of the divorces were over Raus with my Nan and her partner's over football. Any blues in the family? We got one. I got one uncle who's a toffee, but most of the family are all reds.

Speaker 1: 2:40

God. So going back I know we talked a little bit earlier. You know, for both of us our memories are pretty hazy. I remember, you know, going going to Anfield when I was six and with my grandad, so you know God bless him that he took me. And so I know you're hazy. On your first match, what do you remember you know as growing up as a kid, you know, watching Liverpool.

Speaker 2: 3:14

Well, just that we were hugely successful back in those days. You know, individually, like you know, non-stop going on from, you know Kevin Keegan, you know Shanks, you know Paisley, it just went on and on and on. You know so, which I took a lot of stick for, because obviously I grew up in London and people couldn't get their heads around the fact that I did support Liverpool and they just thought it was a glory hunting thing. You know, I mean that you were just supporting the team that were massively successful. So it kind of comes as a bit of a relief when it when although not that much of a relief when we wasn't so successful for such a long time, do you know? I mean, you know it was painful, but it kind of, at least, people, you weren't getting stuck with a glory hunting label because there was those desolate years, you know, and the wait for the premiership title would just seem like forever, right.

Speaker 1: 4:12

Yeah, well, I mean back then. You know it's not as prevalent now. You know your kids wear all the jerseys.

Speaker 2: 4:20

Back then I don't think I ever really saw that many kids wearing jerseys, unless they were homemade, you know yeah right staffs yeah, and I mean I remember I'd, you know I used to go, we used to always go home regularly because my family I've got still got a lot of family still have now that are in the living in Liverpool and so my grandmother, you know, she just she was just passionate about the city and so we would at least once a month, possibly more, go back see, see her mother, my great grandmother. And that's when I started to get taken to the matches with my great uncle Ernie, my nan's sister's husband. He used to take me to the games every week and I was going to stand in the kids pen. I mean it was just, it was mind-blowing, being a kid, you know, going to Anfield and obviously you got this so much earlier back those days. Do you know what I mean? It seems like now you'd probably be there on midday waiting for the three o'clock kickoff.

Speaker 2: 5:24

Do you know what I mean, you know, and I used to love it. I mean it's just standing on the cop as a kid, it was just mind-blowing, you know, and I mean I used to love all the surges, even growing up, going through the teenage bit, you know I mean it was just like for me, that's for me there's never been anywhere that I've ever gone to to witness that. You know, when I when Anfield's rocking, it is rocking, you know the atmosphere is just something else in the cop back in the days before you know, before before seating came into to, it all was just just next level yeah, I mean, it is the church, isn't it, I mean?

Speaker 1: 6:01

but back then you would, just you know, they'd say 50 000, but there'd be a hell of a lot more than 50 000, and well, everyone used to bunk in, didn't they?

Speaker 2: 6:10

you could just slide for the turds time you were in.

Speaker 1: 6:14

I mean, it was it was packed when it was easy to get in. Then you know, no, it's hard to get in now with all the you know the app and stuff. But yeah, just getting your mates to kind of pile, pile in and then you kind of go under the turnstile, it was great, plus plus people used to let you in as well.

Speaker 2: 6:32

I was scared as a lot they were getting anywhere. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, no, it was, it was. It was fantastic times, fantastic memories, you know, and a lot of the players could get them because a lot said, you know, my family were around Kirby so, and my common men were Minnan Lib, which was just not far down the road from there, but a lot of players used to drink in the pub around the corner. So you know, quite often see them, you know. So that was always a bit special. So obviously, when you know, I mean it's not so much now, but back in those days there was a big drinking culture in football.

Speaker 2: 7:05

I'm smoking as well yeah, I'm not going to wave it up well, not anymore. I mean, sports science is what it is now and we know what we know now, but you know, you've got to think. I mean that just amazes me that a professional footballer could, could, do what they did, you know, in terms of partying and drinking and god knows what, and then go out and play the way they did. You know what I mean. It's like, wow, I mean as a musician, I struggle with it now well, you see, even like them.

Speaker 1: 7:35

What was it? Istanbul, you know, 2005, as you saw, on the AC Milan bench there was some one of the players smoking. I mean, you just would not see that now, would you?

Speaker 2: 7:47

I mean no, no you know, you know the way that the food, the everything, you know, the way that these you are now I mean they literally are. You, like you say, the sports science and the way that you've got to maintain your body to be at the top of your game is totally different. But I mean every aspect of football is different, whether it's the pitches because you remember the old pitches that he used to play on, you know, I mean they never had a blade of grass on them. You know how Liverpool used to be able to play that passing game that they did on some of those pitches, with just mind blowing yeah, they bring in the sun, wouldn't they from Formby Beach?

Speaker 1: 8:29

yeah, I mean so, are you in the snow? Yeah, yeah, I mean again, you know you, there was no underground nothing no, that was a massive advancement, wouldn't it? You know sure yeah, and you wouldn't see any any football or wearing gloves or a or a snud no, no, football's changed so much. I mean, I missed the tackling.

Speaker 2: 8:55

You know you can't barely tackle anymore do you, I mean you want to talk about the tackling, which was brutal, absolutely brutal, back in the days, do you know? I mean like Chopra Harris, and you know you'd like to your Tommy Smith, and God knows earlier, even soonest. You know, I mean, it was an animal, you got to remember as well. They only had 11 players. Yeah, no, not 11, 12 players only had one sub, do you know I mean so you know you, you couldn't go off injured, even if you broke your leg. You've only got to see him now and it's like they're sick, they're off after players. It's hard enough to try and get them on the field now. Psychologically, they're injured and the size of the squads now are unbelievable. When was he used to be a 13-man squad for most of the season?

Speaker 1: 9:39

I think back in the day, yeah yeah, and a one bucket and a sponge. I still have no idea what was in that water, because it seemed to.

Speaker 2: 9:49

It seemed to fix broken legs the old and the old old oversold, you know I mean, but yeah, it did, and those players played through it and they dare not play. You know they played with injuries because they were frightened they're getting dropped from the team, you know. So I mean, I just think I just been reading quite genius, genius. You know, the Bob Haseley book, you know, is probably the most underrated manager in football history and yet it's probably the most successful if you look at his time period and the amount of trophies he picked up.

Speaker 1: 10:22

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing, you know. Everybody looks back and it's Shankly. You know that shines. But Bob, bob won loads and I don't think he gets to just deserve that.

Speaker 2: 10:37

I think it's probably you know. Again, reading the book and you know, reflecting on it afterwards, you know, I think a lot of it was because obviously Shankly was a very different kind of character, you know. I mean Shankly, you know he did. You know he was the foundation of that club and taking that club to where it was, and he was very, you know, but he was very outspoken, you know. I mean, he was completely, you know, very much a socialist, suited the Liverpool people down to the ground, said all the right things.

Speaker 2: 11:06

Paisley was totally the opposite. It was, you know, it was. You know, reading the book it becomes really apparent that you know, he really struggled to hold a conversation, do you know what I mean? And, like you know, he words didn't come easy to him, you know. So he wasn't that flamboyant outgoing character, he just being that cardigan of his. Do you know what I mean? And, like you know, but you know, the thing that proves what a great manager he was was how he kept on rebuilding that team, you know, when he was winning the European Cups and that there was only a couple of players left from that Shankly era.

Speaker 1: 11:44

Who, who. Who was your favourite player back then? I mean, I always asked like, who was your post-a-boy back then?

Speaker 2: 11:52

I mean, obviously, my first, first hero and I remember crying when he left was obviously Kevin Keegan. You know, that was, that was been my age, where I really, you know, you know, when he left the team I literally cried, you know, as a young kid and I thought that was it. But you know, like everybody who supports Liverpool, whoever watched Kenny Douglas play and not just play, but then obviously everything he went on to do for the club post-Hillsborough, you know, kenny Douglas to me will always be. You know, king Kenny, he'll be, he's my number one, without a shadow of a doubt. You know, bonsy, you want to talk about players. I mean, we'd be blessed with so many fantastic players. Watching John Barnes play was unbelievable. You know, your list just goes on. But King Kenny, if I had to pick one person would be King Kenny.

Speaker 1: 12:49

Yeah, I think you know, after Keegan left, I was the same. Keegan was my, you know, post-a-boy and when he left I was devastated. But then Liverpool have always had somebody come in, haven't they? You know Owen left, fowler left, you know Torres left, suarez left. We've always had a player come in and just take that spot and take it to another level. That's what I admire about you know the scouting. You know to get Kenny in. The first time I saw him play you could just tell he was definitely.

Speaker 2: 13:27

Yeah, I mean, when he scored in I can't remember how many minutes of his debut, you know I'm thinking then didn't stop scoring, but it was just a way that it was the way you played, wasn't it? It was his vision, it was the way that he could just he could have just read the game. You know, I didn't don't think he particularly looked like the fastest player on the pitch, you know what I mean, but he could just read and the way he could play in other players, you know it was just incredible. He was just another level, you know. I mean his mind was totally different.

Speaker 1: 13:54

Yeah, it was just you know, you think, you know I saw the news of, like Gerard made a turnaround and might be going to Saudi. Now you just think that, kenny, you know he was a Liverpool legend and going from player to managerial, you know, status for Liverpool was just that's where you should be, you know, I think the thing that really helped Kenny go make the transformation into into management so so easy or so look so easy and effortlessly.

Speaker 2: 14:36

Effortlessly was the fact that the backroom team was still the same. You know it always been the same from shanks through to Paisley, to Moran, to Fagan, to Roy Evans, so he had those core people still around him that had been with that team forever. So he had a lot of help. Whereas I think you know Gerard at the moment, you know, going into management, he's got, he's got to find his team. Do you know what I mean? He's got to find that staff that are back around. But back in those days Liverpool had a consistency that the whole team you know nobody just came in and it was all the staff were already there. Do you know what I mean? Whereas now you've you need. You know when managers come in, they bring an army of people with them.

Speaker 1: 15:23

Yeah, it's a lot different. So any, any cup finals you want to.

Speaker 2: 15:29

Yeah, I went to the League Cup final recently against City. We lost. I went to the Newcastle FA Cup final. We won 3-0. I didn't make the last. I tickets for last European Championship that we were on saw and I couldn't get the, get the plane, the journey's oversight and miss that one. I think we're few. I've been a few milk cup finals and a few FA Cup finals. I've been lucky enough, but but only lost that one, only lost to City. Well, one penalty is an awful week Trash that day anyway. And actually that second half is amazing.

Speaker 1: 16:08

Yeah, I mean that's the things. That City are just a juggernaut. I hate them.

Speaker 2: 16:14

I mean, it's difficult, isn't it? You've got to love and hate them, you know? I mean I've been really vocal about, you know, fsg and you know I just felt like last year we didn't. You know I got really upset and we didn't do anything in the transfer market Well, no, we signed Nunes, but I just felt like, you know, everybody knew that our midfield was aging you know what I mean and to not replace it.

Speaker 2: 16:42

I think there was a lot of different reasons why we didn't succeed and we were so bad last year. You know we were. We'd come out of that full season where we played every game going. You know we, you know, could have been the most incredible team of all time if we'd won all those fours and we were one game away from being that. I think that took a massive toll. I think the World Cup coming so quickly, the catch up with COVID and the games coming so fast.

Speaker 2: 17:14

I just think, you know we needed to strengthen and we didn't strengthen and I was quite sort of angry about that and it just seemed like the injuries we picked up this year and we just never got going. Do you know what I mean? It was just like it just looked like all the players looked. They looked like they were, you know, they looked like they had the team you couldn't believe it was the same team that had been playing just a few months before that were competing for everything. It just for most of this season, last season. Yeah, they look a bit spent.

Speaker 1: 17:43

But you know, having a small preseason wasn't good, you know and losing to man United 4-0.

Speaker 2: 17:53

And it just never got better after that, did it? You know?

Speaker 1: 17:57

what I mean I think the club got it wrong. Going to Singapore. I think never have happened and they're doing it again this preseason At least. They're doing the Threnleys in Germany first and then they'll go to Singapore, I think, for one match. But yeah, I mean I can't imagine. I mean I guess it's like you know for your side as well, being a musician maybe getting like a platinum record, you know you're close to it, then your next album just bombs. That's how I think Liverpool were. We were so close to getting that platinum record, and then I think it had been quadruple platinum, wouldn't it?

Speaker 2: 18:42

Yeah, yeah, it was an amazing season. It was an incredible season. But you know, the thing with City is they're relentless and you just got to look, you know they've got a squad that could finish three of their teams. They could have three teams, feel three teams, and they'll finish in the top five. Three of them would finish in the top five. Do you know what I mean? It's like that is how good they are, but that shows how good Klopp is. Now.

Speaker 2: 19:13

When Klopp first arrived, I didn't realise just how good he was. I thought he was a bit of a cheerleader, ignorantly. Do you know what I mean? I just thought, like you know, he's a lot of fist pumping and chest beating and you know. But I've read a lot about him, you know, and through his early careers and I realised he's actually a way more astute manager than he's given credit for and just what he's achieved with that team and the budget that he has, he's up there with one of the greatest managers of all time in my eyes. Obviously, I'm biased. I can't imagine the day that he leaves us, even if we have a bad season again this year. I wouldn't call him out, you know, but I don't think that's going to happen.

Speaker 2: 19:58

I was really worried, I mean, I know you contacted me this week and I'm sure I don't know whether it's because of Twitter or because I was having a meltdown midweek. Do you know what I mean? I was getting a bit emotional when I was watching all these other teams signing 100 million pound players now and we hadn't signed anybody at that stage and I was like, right, that's it, I've had enough. We've got McAllister. And the signs were like that was all we're going to get. Don't get me wrong. That's a fantastic signing, but for me we still need, you know, and other than the lab, it's a Bloski. I can't, don't know how to pronounce his name. I just say Dominic, dominic, yeah, dominic. So you know, that's, that's, that's, that's cheer me up endlessly, I think, if we can get a right back in I know that sounds really weird just so that we can get, because I think Trent's going to be a revelation in midfield.

Speaker 2: 20:47

Do you know what I mean? He started to show the signs and I think, once that properly clicks, you know the way that that boy can pass around and the fact that you know he's come from the fence so he understands how to defend. I don't think he's the greatest defender in the world. He never had to be before, do you know what I mean? But he got found out this year because of our weakness in midfield. But I think moving him into the middle is a stroke of genius and I think it's going to pay off massively. Yeah, we're going to. We are missing a right back now I saw a couple of you tweets.

Speaker 1: 21:20

You weren't in meltdown mode, but so so was, you know, 60% of Twitter. I just think, I just think, like I'm neither FSG in or out, you know, I'm just Liverpool football club, and I just think we, we would if I'm being honest, they haven't.

Speaker 2: 21:42

You can't. I mean, like I said, yes, I was having, you know, meltdown because I was like, oh, go away, I'm not going to spend any money again. And all the money we have spent in the past is because we managed to sell our players a ridiculous fee and they've, like you said, what a fantastic scouting squad. We've gone out and found incredible players but, like I said, I was just, I was in meltdown mode. I mean fair play to them. They've redeveloped the ground. We have come with loads of success. Maybe I'm just being a small brat. Do you know what I mean? And I'm always a bit. And obviously, where do you want to go? We're not going to be able to compete financially with man City. The same thing's going to happen at Newcastle. They're going to get strong. Do you know what I mean? Because you know they, these are state owned clubs and it's going to get more and more.

Speaker 2: 22:30

I've always been a little bit juvious of Americans in football anyway, and don't get me wrong, I don't mean to be dissing anybody from the US, but it is a business venture for them. Do you know what I mean? Which it should be? Do you know what I mean, but obviously as a span I'm not interested. I just want the best players, that I want to be able to compete.

Speaker 2: 22:53

And it just breaks your heart, you know, because we're Liverpool Football Club and we're one of the biggest and most successful clubs in the world and they bought this club for like I don't know how many hundreds of millions, but they're trying to sell a small share of it for four or five billion. Do you know what I mean? So if that's what the club's valued at, then you can raise some money like the Glazers have. And don't get me wrong, I don't want to be like the Glazers at all because they are a proper bunch of wrongs. But you can invest in that team. Do you know what I mean? And we should be able to compete because we've earned the money. Do you know? When you've won as many trophies as we have over the last four or five seasons, we've generated some money.

Speaker 1: 23:35

Yeah, I just think with you know, with FSG though, buddy, I think when we have a bad season, it's all FSG's fault, but then when we've won all these trophies, that isn't FSG part of the club. So you've got to, you've got to say, you know, hats off to them. But yeah, you know it was frustrating where I think 2019, when we won the Champions League, we should have bought a few players.

Speaker 2: 24:04

then, you know, just like, just like City, do you know Pep's ruthless, you know again quote going back to I mean again going back to quote Bob Pazza you've got to keep building your state team. You know our team, this team has been usually usually successful, massively successful, massively overcheat. And, like you know and I'm not blaming, like I said, you know, yes, I might be going a little bit off, you know, off the FSG, but actually I don't think they've done a bad job. But you do need, as you just said, to keep on strengthening from a position of strength. What we've let this team do is they they've been successful but they've become they've are now an aged team which they're now addressing. You know what I mean. So I'm pleased with that. If we'd had this conversation on Monday, then we've been having a very different conversation. I might not be quite so relaxed about it.

Speaker 1: 25:01

You think Klopp's, though, been a bit stubborn, though you know, with players like you know, Milner, with with you know, Henderson, like he's kept a hold of players like Kater and Ox should have been gone two seasons ago.

Speaker 2: 25:16

I think Naby, absolutely, ox I. I don't think we could offload him. Do you know what I mean? I don't think every time he came up to the sort of transfer window he was on the injury list. Do you know what I mean? So, and it's such a shame about ox because before he got injured you know, playing for England he was he was mind blowing. Do you know what I mean? He was like he was electric and I was, and then he got injured and then he never, ever, ever recovered and then but like you said, yes, we kept told him probably five seasons too long. I don't even know how long he was there for, but it just seems to have been there forever. But I honestly don't think we had a chance to sell him because he was always injured in that in that transfer window. Naby Kater another one you know absolutely.

Speaker 2: 26:02

Milner, to be honest, you know, even last season, you know he won all those trophies with us. He was a massive part of that team. The man never did anything wrong when he came on or if he played, didn't matter what position he was playing in. Do you know what I mean? He was? He was a machine. Do you know what I mean His fitness and everything. So you know, I have to tip my hat off to Milner because I have no idea how that man's managed to do it. You know he's won everything. He's, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 26:35

Well, I think this was the year to get rid of him, but even last year, the things that were going wrong, one is full when he, when he, when he came on or wherever he was asked to do something, he put a shift in. Do you know what I mean? Our problems just stem from we had wades, you know everybody, you know losing DS for ages Jota for ages Tiago. We couldn't keep on the pitch. Do you know what I mean? It just felt like. It just felt like right through the spine of the team. We, we were, we had so many injuries and we didn't have the cover.

Speaker 1: 27:06

Yeah, that's the thing you know. I've had chat with my mates like we just seem to pick up these minor muscle injuries but then what's supposed to be two, three weeks out ends up being a few months, like canote, same thing was. Was out a while Matt, same thing.

Speaker 2: 27:28

Well, we say to have a massive problem last year, didn't we? Everyone kept getting injured in training and you've got to look at it. Was it? Is it the training methods? Is something wrong? Was I also right in that we didn't have a proper physio for a long time or something? There was, some of the medical team weren't there. I don't know what was going on.

Speaker 1: 27:44

We didn't have a club doctor for six, seven months. I mean, what like Liverpool, Like that's how is that even possible?

Speaker 2: 27:54

Do you know what I mean? But there was definitely something fundamentally wrong with I don't know whether it's the training methods, the pitch, but I don't know what was going on, because the amount of injuries and the way that we're picking them up and they're all similar injuries was just like. This can't be a coincidence. Yes, you can blame the long season we had, then obviously straight into the World Cup, so none of these players have had time to rest, but you know you could say that about all the other clubs, but they didn't seem to be picking up the injuries like we were.

Speaker 1: 28:22

Yeah, it was like hopefully it's behind us, yeah, hopefully. You know, it was like every other week, though, for us and I think that stop start, stop, start season. Just you know, clops said it before consistency yeah, like you saw in the last 10, 11 matches of last season, that was the Liverpool team that we all know, you know but they said, I mean, just started to look great.

Speaker 2: 28:49

You know it's actually chucking it down here right now, I don't know if you can hear on my roof but they still didn't look great. Do you know what I mean? Don't get me wrong. We ground out some results towards the end of last season and we were, you know, unlucky not to end up getting up into the top four, but I've just it just felt like we just we just run out of track to it. You know, it was one of those. It was too. It was too much too late, it was too little too late.

Speaker 2: 29:17

So I think if we can, if we can get a good, decent preseason, if we can get those players that we want in early and get off to a good start, then then then I'm fully optimistic, whether or not we're good enough to win the league. You know, city city always takes some beating. I don't like the fact we have to go away Chelsea first game. Do you know what I mean? Because you really, you know confidence is everything and you need to get off and you need to get up to it. You know, I think the start of our campaign this next year looks pretty tricky and you need to get that decent run together, get your confidence up and start playing.

Speaker 1: 29:54

So I'm not optimistic, but I'm also realistic, yeah well we'll probably hopefully I won't see you on Twitter in like mid-October, like screaming at everyone.

Speaker 2: 30:10

I know. Sometimes I just you know, yeah, I've. The worst thing is, like you know, quite often when I'm watching the game and I mean technology being where, I've even had laptops on stage with me so I've watched the game, I went from full beam, and suddenly I'll go off and do a cartwheel and the crowd have no idea what's going on. I remember watching I think we were playing Arsenal once, I think it was Champions League, and I, like I said, after band or Arsenal and after band the Liverpool, we were watching it on. We were watching that on the laptop while we were playing and I was just going mental. So, yeah, you know, I'm really good. I hate. I hate this time, even though for me it's the busiest and best time as a musician, because it's festival season I hate not having football in my life. I live for matchdays.

Speaker 1: 31:04

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, after last season I was done. I was like I don't want and that's hard to do when you have a full podcast you don't really want to talk about Liverpool. I was just like I'm done. But now that we've got a few players in, you know, I'm seen to be re-energised and I'm like I'm looking, looking forward to it, because I still think there's about maybe at least two players coming in. Still, I think it's got to be.

Speaker 2: 31:31

I think this got to be. I mean I'm really. I mean, you look at our forward line. You know, I mean that's incredible. And you know, diaz Jota, you know, nunes, I don't think Gakbo wow, nunes. I know he didn't pull up trees last year do you know what I mean? And he didn't look composed in front of goal, but he did get himself in positions that. It was just that lack of composure at the last minute that let him down and he was a bit headless chicken at times. But you know, I do think he'll come good. I think he'll adapt and I've got a feeling he'll come good. Whether or not he's actually going to be in that start on 11, I don't, I can't see it. When you look at Gakbo, jota and Salah, where's he going to go into that? You know what I mean. So he's got a tough season ahead of him, but I'm expecting him to come good, yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:30

I think you know he's a working in progress and you know Klopp's even said that. You know he's gone away and he's learned a few more scout words, which which will help him. But, like you said, though, there is a player there because he does get in these positions, but I think the price tag and Hallund's coming at the same time, yeah, there's a lot of pressure on him. Hallund, just he's a robot, he is. I don't believe he's human, he's just unbelievable. I hate.

Speaker 2: 33:01

I'm really hoping someone takes him out.

Speaker 1: 33:04

Oh man, you get an injury.

Speaker 2: 33:06

Yeah, I mean I don't wish that upon anyone, but yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't in real terms, but obviously as a Liverpool support, of course I do. Do you know what I mean? You know, but yeah, I mean, it's always going to be tough for City. It's always going to. It's going to, you know. And then Arsenal have strengthened.

Speaker 2: 33:27

But I think Arsenal don't get me wrong, you know you finish where you deserve to finish, but I don't. I honestly think that they've had their moment, even though they've signed some great players. Dechtlemeister is a great player, you know, sack is a great player. I don't. I think that they had a moment last year where everybody else wasn't very good. You know your Chelsea weren't there. You know Liverpool weren't there, spurs were spursy, you know. I think Newcastle were just going to go from strength to strength because of that money they got. I think. You know. You know I hear it again, I don't know. Again, I think they were just lucky that Liverpool were as bad as they were. I don't think they particularly look great. I'd like to see them have a terrible season.

Speaker 1: 34:21

I don't understand United. I really don't, because they probably bought really well with Kazamiro, probably maybe the signing of the season for them, but still I thought they were shite and they still got in the top four.

Speaker 2: 34:39

But that's what I'm going to hack hard about. It was so bad last year that they could actually get in there. Being that bad it shows you how terrible we were. We absolutely battered them. I think we're going to be top two. Obviously we can win it, but winning that it's just such a long season Just because of the squad that the City can always muster and peps obviously next level in terms of management. But I think we'll be up there. I think we'll be there or thereabouts. We're certainly not going to have the same season we have this year.

Speaker 1: 35:25

How's the banter Ben in the band? How's the? What the banter?

Speaker 2: 35:30

Do you know what? It's actually all right. We actually want each other's teams to do well, believe it or not? There's more bantering with other people from other bands. Do you know what I mean? That you tend to give it to, but as a band, we want each other's teams to do well. I was pleased for Sean because he's a massive Arsenal supporter and it's been miserable for them quite some time. I was glad that they finally could put a run together. They went all spursy themselves at the end and blew it. They absolutely blew it. It was theirs. I'm a bit gutted for them, but I do think that that's it. I think they've had their moment and they've missed it. Do you know what I mean? I think we're back and I think City are going to be there and I think Newcastle will finish above them this year.

Speaker 1: 36:25

Yeah, I'm the same. I think it will be one and two for City and or whether.

Speaker 2: 36:33

I mean we don't get a challenge 100%, I do. I mean the player impressed me. I mean a massive Avi Elliott fan, I think he's got a fantastic future. So it's great that he's now going to have the support from the players that are coming in, which means we haven't got rely on him so much. I don't think. I think he's got a bright future. Curtis Jones I really I wasn't sure. I was really sort of like I think he's going to make it, but then he came in and he had a good back end of the season. So there's two great players there and I'm really excited about Ben Doherty. Yeah, seventeen, yeah, but if you're good enough, you're old enough. Do you know what I mean? Rooney proved that, so I hope he gets a bit more game time this year. I'm excited about seeing him because what I have seen is mind blowing.

Speaker 1: 37:28

Yeah, I think you know, get the young lads in the league cup, maybe some of the early rounds of the Europa League. But yeah, I mean, that's one of the many things that I love about Klopp he gives these youngsters a chance.

Speaker 2: 37:44

Yeah, yeah, I mean what I don't like to do. One thing that really upsets me about I don't think it helps development when you change half the team or more of the team. Do you know what I mean it's like? I think the way to develop players is to put them in there with experienced players maybe three or four rather than do the wholesale change, where I don't think that you know, because you learn by being around these fantastic players. Do you know what they're doing? So, and I always think it's a risky move when you suddenly just throw eight kids in. Do you know what I mean? I would rather they would bed it in with a team and then we got the win and then start bringing some more of them on, rather than doing that whole gambling thing. I don't like losing anything. I don't want to lose a toss.

Speaker 1: 38:31

Yeah, I want everything to go have a way. So, speaking of the band Dub Pistols, you got a brand new album that just came out in March on Sightly Records Frontline. You've been in the game for what? 20 odd years now 20, with this band.

Speaker 2: 38:58

With this band I started 26, 26, 27 years ago now. I started running clubs putting on nights in 1987 after coming back from my FIFA, so I had sort of strong roots in the club game, I guess. And then I started. You know, when the most happy Monday is and the stone roses and that come around. That's when I decided to be going into that sort of band movement and then the big beat then came along and I got into that because I was bored of the generic house music that was happening at the time. So that kind of got was where I sort of took off, when the Chemical Brothers in fact were slim and that and we were doing like the Heavenly Social and places like that. Then we went to America, signed a deal and that's when it started to form more into being a band and more about writing songs.

Speaker 1: 39:51

Yeah, it's. You know. I look at your discography on. It's crazy. You're up to your ninth album. I mean, do you still kick yourself just going? You know I've made a career as a musician because, you know, did you DJ before starting.

Speaker 2: 40:10

Yeah, I mean that's how it started. Dub Pistols was never supposed to be a band. It was. It was me making, like I said, big beat, great beat records, whatever you want to call them, and DJ Cannon for that. You know what I mean. And then we had a hit with Cyclone and that was the first big breakthrough track for us. That got picked up by Tony Hawkes too. That's where, that's when everything totally changed. And then we did a million and a half dollar deal with Geffen in America. Jimmy Irvine signed us.

Speaker 2: 40:39

But I mean, you know, for a lot of our career we always had the self-destruct button on. Do you know what I mean? It was like, you know, just like every band. You know it was sex, drugs and rock and roll, and you know we tried every which way to ruin our own career. We've grown up a bit now. Do you know what I mean? With all you know, life's changed your things. Everything changes in life and now it's more about, you know, performance and making sure you just do everything the best you can and put the best show on you can. But yeah, of course I feel lucky to have had a career. I mean I call us the most successfully unsuccessful band on time, because we're kind of, we're kind of we're more of a cult thing now, I guess, than going to be the next big thing.

Speaker 1: 41:29

Well, I mean, you've got to work with some amazing vocalist, but one that sticks out for me is the great late Teddy Hall, and he was a United fan as well, wasn't he? Did you have some banter with Teddy?

Speaker 2: 41:47

Yeah, I mean Terry's very hard to have banter with. I mean Terry, you know one of my dear friends. Massive loss and he was actually my hero growing up. And to get to work with him was just like the massive, massive, massive honour. And through him I met Linville.

Speaker 2: 42:03

But yeah, he was United through and through. I mean, he had the most driest sense of humor. You know, he could cut you down and you wouldn't even know it. You know it was, and he would always drape his man United flag around somewhere. So, yeah, no it was. Yeah, we'd have banned that, but at the time when we were working at Gevey United we're still a good football team, I mean. So it was weird because I think I got a call the night Terry died from Linville, linville's in Jamaica and then he called me and said that Terry was about to pass away and I knew he was ill but I didn't realise it was kind of like that serious and apparently he watched the match and then passed away afterwards. So he's still got to go through, he's still got to watch his team. And then he left us sadly. But his last words to Linville were love, love, love, because Terry was always a people's champion and we were champion that the people who needed him most. You know, the most you know. Yeah, just a great man.

Speaker 1: 43:14

Yeah, I mean Ghost Town to me is one of my favourite tracks ever. It just had everything you know, yeah, different. The specials were totally different from anything I'd ever got brought up in. I mean 70s for me was just listening to me dad stuff, black Sabbath and just thin Lizzie, just hard rock stuff. So the 80s obviously you know it was cheesy pop music. But then I heard the specials and I kind of changed the way I thought about music.

Speaker 2: 43:49

Well, I mean, I'd assume the sort of story. I mean, my first love were, like, you know, the clash. Then I got into the specials and that took me down to sort of like, you know, looking more at Jamaican music and Studio One and, you know, cox and Sound and things like that. But it was because of the specials and they were really first multi-racial band around. You know what I mean. So it was a massive, massive change.

Speaker 2: 44:16

And, like you said, going back to the 70s, you know FATCH was in power, everything was going. It kind of feels a bit like that now. You know, with the Tory government that are in charge right now, you know that they've absolutely fleeced everybody. Interest rates have gone through the roof. You know it just feels like the whole country's on the edge at the moment. So, yeah, we really are back to those times and that, you know, breaking through that period, you know, especially being in Liverpool, you know, had a massive effect on Liverpool. The FATCHER government, you know, because they neglected it. You know what I mean. And obviously the Scousers Scousers, as you will, as you know very much, you know, a labour stronghold. You know what I mean. It's like they'd never be a. My work at FATCH would never be working there. You know the things that she'd done to call the strikers, you know was just absolutely horrendous. So there's no love for her in a dub pistol's camp.

Speaker 1: 45:19

God, god. Yeah, I mean hate to say you know for anyone, but God, she's six feet under, hopefully 12 feet under there. Yeah, I mean she.

Speaker 2: 45:30

I think you know, I think that Boris Johnson and you know I don't want to get political on the show about football, but I think Boris Johnson and this Tory government have fleeced this country for the last 30 years and lined their pockets and you know that carzy budget and taking the interest rates up and leaving them Brexit's just been an absolute disaster. So I can't wait to see the back of them.

Speaker 1: 45:52

Well, let's get into a little more. You know happy, happy times, festival season. I mean you got beat here to coming up, which you know I. It just looks amazing. I mean, what's your festivals looking like this year?

Speaker 2: 46:10

I mean we're very lucky that we tend to play probably two or three festivals every week. You know what I mean. So I took a year off Glastonbury this year because they didn't want to do it, because I just felt like I'd done it every year for quite a few years. We'll be back there next year, but so I actually had a week off, which was great. But we're literally like, yeah, this week I think I'll give festival and then I'm over in Poland, australia festival Be Heard is coming up the week after, which, I can't tell you is, for me, it's my favourite festival in the UK. It's like the perfect size, like 15, 20,000 people. It's up in Ribble Valley.

Speaker 2: 46:51

The guys that run it are just like you know. They're just the nicest guys that you'll ever meet. The attention to detail, to everything they do. I mean I have my own festival, mucky Weekender, which is in September. Like only aspire to get to where they are. Do you know what I mean? It's just like I just have nothing but love for it. It's incredible. So, yeah, I've got that. There's another one in Romania that I love doing, called Electric Castle, which is about 100, 150,000 people. It's insane, but it's so good. So the production levels are out of this world. Masters down in New Cay looking forward to that? Just yeah, I give good me gathering, I don't know. The list just goes on and on, and on.

Speaker 1: 47:41

Well, it's great to see like the smile on your face because you know, two years ago, covid, you couldn't do anything. So you know, I see the smile on your face, you're just going, I've got all these festivals to go to and two years ago there was absolutely nothing. So how was your lockdown we? Because I listened to know Gallagher the other day and he just said lockdown wasn't anything really different for him because he was planning his next album anyway, so he was writing anyway. How was it like for you?

Speaker 2: 48:13

Well, I mean, first of all, I was quite lucky in, you know, most of my life. I grew up in West London but I got married recently and we moved out to the countryside. So it was quite cool that I live in a tiny little village up in Hertfordshire called Reed so I could go out for long walks every day and I think there was a massive thing coming into going into COVID, where I think if COVID hadn't happened, the band might have stopped because we just weren't, we just did it. It was an unhappy place. It was kind of like we didn't like each other anymore. Do you know what I mean? Which happens to a lot of bands? If you tour like we do for 11 months of the year, it's intense, and to be around everybody all that time, it really does take its toll. So the break for us came at the right time. I mean, yes, it was heartbreaking and it made you actually reevaluate your life, but it did make you actually realise how much you love doing what you do and how lucky you are to do what you do. So when we finally got back to come back and do it, it was like a whole new. It just felt like yeah, you know, like I said, if it wasn't for COVID then we probably wouldn't still exist, but it gave us that love back for what we do, which is being a performer and having the life that we did.

Speaker 2: 49:39

It was difficult, a lot of people really. I mean, I'm a patron for a charity called Tonic Music for Mental Health, which is a charity which is all about recovery for music. So most of the time during lockdown I would never go on like I have a lot of people going on, because a lot of musicians really struggled. They were, we were the first out, same as the hospitality industry. We were the first out and we were the last back. The government told us that we weren't viable. Now that really a lot of musicians struggle with their mental health anyway For one reason or other, it's been well documented. But I know with a lot of my friends really, really, really struggled through that time mentally because they felt like they'd lost their whole worth and their whole being. So for me, the only time I would do any streaming was just all about fundraising for the charity. So it actually gave me a purpose.

Speaker 1: 50:43

Yeah, I think that's the thing. You know that I was speaking to a lad that books a lot of the acts and then he said you know, there was a couple of his bands that were coming up. You know they're gaining momentum and then Covid hit and that's it. The band just stopped.

Speaker 2: 51:07

It's just it was. You know a lot, I mean. I think that obviously there's a perception that bands make loads of money and, you know, have this fantastic life. The actual reality is far from that. You know what I mean. Most bands live hand to mouth, you know what I mean. And they have to. And the way, because you know, music has been so devalued now that you know, if you streamed my album three times a day for three years, it'd be like one cell. You know what I mean. So the return from your actual music itself is quite low these days. It's not like the old days where he was selling millions of albums. So bands have to be on the road now and have to talk to survive and that just, you know, swab that will take away from them. Most bands were, you know, they just didn't have any money to put food on the table.

Speaker 1: 52:01

Well, it's the same, isn't it? I mean a lot of the bands. When they're on the road I mean touring they're actually paying.

Speaker 2: 52:12

Yeah, and I think there's again going back to the problem which I just said, which is because of the small sales from the returns, from the sales, now that there is a lot more bands out on the road at the same time, all competing for the same dollar. You know what I mean, because they have to be touring, so that makes life more difficult, so at any one time you can have like six, seven, eight bands playing in the same city that night. Do you know what I mean? All competing for the same thing and obviously, like the bigger artists charge such a huge amount for their tickets. That goes down the food chain and people haven't got the money, especially now with the cost of living crisis, to be spending on so many different acts and so many different bands. So, yeah, it's the problems, real struggles real.

Speaker 1: 53:04

Any plans to come over to the US?

Speaker 2: 53:08

I've just been. I used to tour. We used to tour the America a hell of a lot pre-911. And things were going really well for us. But after 911, we came back and we've never really been able to catch a cold there since. But I've just been in talks now with some friends of mine from Crystal Method I don't know if you know the group Crystal Method, so we used to have the same management and there's a chance that I'm bringing them over to play and perform my festival next year and we may be going on tour with them next year. So it's a case of just watching the space and just trying to make it all happen.

Speaker 1: 53:44

Oh, nice one, That'll be good. I mean, crystal Method are still big in the scene here, so they're kind of like America's version of Dust Brothers, chemical Brothers. Chemical Brothers yeah, they still call them Dust Brothers, you know, because I mean Song to the Sire. And that was the Dust Brothers.

Speaker 2: 54:03

Yeah, that was my first one. My mercury mouth yeah, absolutely insane record. Obviously, listening to that track was what got me into the whole break scene in the first place. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 54:14

Yeah, I mean, my labels back then were Waller Sound Skint Heavenly. There you go.

Speaker 2: 54:24

I mean, that's all the records I used to play. I used to go around playing all that around America and it used to go crazy. It used to really really go off. So I mean, you know and all those you know, the Chemical Brothers are still churning out fantastic records. I'm lucky I have to be good friends with Ed and Tom Norman's killing it. I don't know if you're sure it's always show at Glass and the Breed Amazing. He's not making music anymore, norman. I think he struggled since he stopped drinking because he's now T-Total. I don't think he's made much music. I think he finds it very odd, but his live shows are just off the scale and the Chemical Brothers live shows are just next level. Yeah, and with them it's remaining. Actually they're doing electric castle, so I'm looking forward to seeing them again.

Speaker 1: 55:08

Now, barry, I usually well, I always ask the musicians that come on your top three like festival acts you would have on a Friday, saturday, sunday night, living or passed away.

Speaker 2: 55:26

Living or passed away. I mean, I mean I love Oasis. I mean I, you know, I thought they were absolutely. You know, I think they're absolutely brilliant. I think they'll be back next year. For the record, I think they're going to reform and do best next year.

Speaker 2: 55:48

I mean, obviously I love the specials and if you want to go Sunday night, then I would love to see Bob Marley play. Do you know what I mean? If it's present and you want to do your Sunday reggae session, but then I've got to have the specials. I mean it's an impossible question. It's impossible, you know, because I'd love to see the clash. I never saw the clash live. You know the jam, even though I perform with come in his name now from it does, from the jam. I mean I'd loved. I've seen Paul Weller a massive Paul Weller fan but I would love to have seen them do their jam thing together, yeah, and then there's so many hip hop artists that I'd love to have seen. Do you know what I mean? I've been lucky enough to see Dre and Beyonce and things like that, but I don't know. I mean I just, you know, I could have so many different stages. I have this whole problem anyway, because I have to book my own festival and do this.

Speaker 1: 56:40

Yeah, there's too many amazing artists out there. You know they're just coming through the door at every second.

Speaker 2: 56:47

They're just you know I mean Bowie. How I mean? As you can't not have Bowie on your list, you can't not have Prince on your list, you can't.

Speaker 1: 56:56

Queen as well. Yeah, yeah, it's a tough decision but, barry, you know this, this hour's gone by so quickly and it's been my absolute pleasure, you know, to get you on. Like I said, I've been into music like most of my life and you know I've bought your records and played them out and you know it's just amazing to to speak to you and you know, again, a Liverpool supporter. So I've got the best of both worlds Because, as we know, football music and clubber go hand in hand.

Speaker 2: 57:29

Absolutely, absolutely. Like I said, you should tap up Flinity from Ragged Twins, because there's a few things to say about it.

Speaker 1: 57:39

I'm on that, on that 90s rave Facebook Facebook group as well. You know they talk about like twins constantly, you know? Or I guess we consider ourselves old farts now, you know, we're like ah, it's not like the good old days, you know. But you know, while these kids, now it's their turn, they're having fun, we can have fun as well. So, yeah, I'm not going to be that old man on the front lawn saying get off my lawn, kids. You know.

Speaker 2: 58:11

I think I think things have changed as well. You know, I mean I hate to call myself a heritage act, but there seems to you know people, you did just a lot to be said for the great pound. Believe me, people of our age are still going out raving. They're still having it. And then, you know, these clubs are full. You know you clockwork, orange and things like that, pulling massive crowds. Do you know what I mean? You know you've seen all these acts, like your old Brandon Blocks and Alex Peay and O1A and everything. I mean they're smashing it at the moment.

Speaker 1: 58:44

Yeah, and they should be, you know, I mean, you're never too old to get behind, you know the decks, or get up live on stage or even, you know, be a raver in the crowd. No, that's not going to happen. I appreciate it, mate, and all the best. Please, everyone like and subscribe, and we'll see you next time. Thank you, Thank you.