Rediscovering Liverpool's Identity through the Decades with Jonathan Aspey

We welcome Jonathan Aspey, author of "Spice Up Your Life: The Story of Liverpool's 1990s Renaissance," who shares his unique perspective on football and his journey growing up in the northeast of England. Discover Jonathan's deep connection with Liverpool Football Club.  

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:10

Hi everyone. I'm welcome to another episode of the Liverpool Connection podcast. This is the story podcast. I am Daz if you just tuning in for the first time and by me, todd again and Steve's out and about doing this thing. I just want to say everybody like and subscribe all that good stuff. If you have not checked out our third year anniversary with Jan Mulby, please do. It was a cracking chat with a Liverpool legend and another one ticked off my bucket list Also coming out this week. Another Liverpool legend had a good chat with Ray Houghton, so look out for that. but really chuffed to have today's guest on First time author, if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 1: 1:09

Yeah, first time, which is rather nice. I like having these first time authors on But brand new book out from pitch publishing, which is some of our mates are on Jeff Golding, who has put so many books out on pitch publishing about Liverpool, but this one is called Spice of Life, the story of Liverpool's 1990s renaissance, and we've got the author. He's also written for these football times, which is another one of my favourite one. Steven Skrag, one of our podcast guests from a couple of years ago, writes for them as well. So if you haven't checked that out, check out. Please go check these football times out. But we welcome Jonathan Aspie. How are you, mate? I know we've been talking for the last 20 minutes about life, kids and all that good stuff, but great to have you on, great to have the record button working, so all good.

Speaker 2: 2:17

No good to be with you.

Speaker 1: 2:18

Thank you very much for having me Want to start. You are from the northeast, so I'm from the northwest, obviously right outside of Liverpool for me. So I know you're not a Liverpool supporter by heart. By born and bred, you do love Liverpool. So tell me about that then. Growing up in the northeast, because there are many football teams around you. So how come Liverpool got into your life?

Speaker 2: 2:55

Yeah, i'm kind of weird in terms of football. I have loads of teams that I absolutely love. Some obviously were more than others. But obviously, where I'm from in the northeast, you've got around. You've got Middlesbrough, you've got Sunderland, you've got Newcastle. I've got some in my family that support Sunderland. Some of my mates support Newcastle and Borough. I've just always been brought up like loving football.

Speaker 2: 3:23

My granddad is where I get my love of football from My dad will openly say he's not got a lot of interest. If it's on and it's like a big thing, he'll watch it, but otherwise he would never seek it out, whereas my granddad is like obsessed He's obsessed with Sunderland, which I think for him is a lifelong I wouldn't say a passion, lifelong chore. But he just gave me loads of videos and anything that he could about football. When I was younger My first exposure at Liverpool was probably he gave me a goal of the season. I remember mentioning this in the forward. He gave me a goal of the season video And one of the big things I remember from that video because I could all VHS which now makes that goal. But it had loads of goal goals in general from that time period Because it goes through the 70s and the 80s and the early 90s. So in 70s and 80s there's obviously so many great Liverpool goals. But I always remembered the 87-88 team because that year the BBC they were so dominant and so good. The BBC dedicated the entire year of goal of the season to them. So every single goal is just an amazing team goal that that team scored So like.

Speaker 2: 4:37

As a kid I always had this appreciation for Liverpool. It always like stuck in my mind. I always knew it was a special club. You know, i'd never been doubted at Liverpool or anything like that as a kid, but I always had this attachment and connection to it. I think, like as a kid I couldn't really watch loads of. We've been speaking to my family about TV in terms of sport in this country. I couldn't afford, i couldn't really get a size sports as a kid. So behind me is an Italian shirt. The majority of what I watched as a kid was Italian football on Channel 4 and Gazette Football Italia. So, like as a kid, i'm kind of a little bit out of touch with a little bit like modern English football. I have clubs I like and I'm attached to, but I'm not following it, following it, whereas I'm following Italian football every single week. But then as I got older I got sky. I was able to watch more and more and more. What I always remember was like solidifying my attachment to Liverpool Again.

Speaker 2: 5:40

I'd always had it as a kid but I remember watching. It was. it's one game and it always jumps out at me and when people ask me, like what's my favourite Liverpool game, like I think it's probably a strange one to mention, but it's the game against City and Anfield on the anniversary of Hillsborough, The year the Provengers of Bulldog were going for the title. And I still just think that was the point. I remember watching because obviously at that point I'm then, as an adult, knew all about Hillsborough and knew the story, knew everything that happened with it and the just ridiculous lack of justice that any of the 97 have received for that.

Speaker 1: 6:23

So I knew all about it and I remember watching it and like it hit me. It's just like I can't really explain it, like, but it hit me watching it.

Speaker 2: 6:30

I remember hearing up just watching the cup absolutely belt out, you'll know, a walk alone. And then the game itself. On top of that was just Liverpool going for the title and knew how much it meant for this like great club to be kind of returning back to the perch effectively. And from there, from then on, it's just been that connection with Liverpool. When I started writing, as you said, for these football times, I wrote like a range of stuff. So I wrote about Torino first. I think that was the first article I wrote for them. I wrote about Eastern European football, because that's an interest that I've got with it into history and things like that. And then I wrote about the 87 88 team for Liverpool. That was the first thing I'd ever written about Liverpool.

Speaker 2: 7:17

And from there on it was just like something clicked with that article. I remember Jeremy Carragher retweeting it on his Twitter and it just like something clicked with that article. So from then on it was just like Liverpool was like the central club in everything in terms of our football fandom. And then you've got, you know, through the clock, years and the development of the club, back up to the point where, until this season, it has been So. That's, that's where the connection comes from. It's been a slow journey, so I would never you know, unlike yourself, i'm not a born and bred like die hard read or anything like that But like there is a connection that I can't shift. When I go to Liverpool now, anytime I'm in Liverpool, it just strengthens the connection. I love that city, i love being there. Me and my wife go there as often as we can. It just the connection just gets stronger. Now.

Speaker 1: 8:16

I mean there will have to be a connection, for I mean especially writing. You know your first book as well, because if you're not really connected, it's going to come off in the book. You know. Just, you know it's just going to be facts And you're just, you're just going to go through it and just be like you know you can tell the authors, just not connected to this. So you know, obviously starting out with football is always good. I've kind of got the same Me dad was totally not into football, massive rugby, you know, he thought football was for cities.

Speaker 1: 8:51

And it was me granddad as well took me to the games and everything just wouldn't, wouldn't shut up about Liverpool. You know the past and all that, and I didn't have time. I mean, i had time for going to the games, i just didn't have time for those stories. And again, you know, that's why I do this podcast, so I get to hear everybody else's stories, you know, and I get that. Tell the big man. You know me, granddad, i'm sorry, i'm now listening, i'm now listening, granddad. So, but you know how do you go about them? Just just, you know, picking the 90s, because it wasn't a very good time for Liverpool football club. I mean yes, yes, we won, i believe, four trophies. I mean plus the with the super, the super cups the FA Cup, the League Cup and then a couple of super cups. Apart from that, we're in the FA Cup final in 86, 87.

Speaker 2: 9:53

Yes, And then 87. Yeah, definitely 87, 88, because that's the one the loss to Wimbledon after that incredible season. Yeah, in terms of, in terms of like, why did I pick the 90s? So, like, i guess I got done. I done 87, 88. That's something that I want to come back to as well. Like, that's not like done in my mind, but I'd written an article for these football times about that. I'd then given it a little bit of time and I'd done 88, 89, with everything that comes along with that season.

Speaker 2: 10:26

You know I didn't do like an analysis of Hillsborough or anything like that, because I just don't, i genuinely don't think that's appropriate. It's not something that someone like me should do with something that a losing expert should do in Hillsborough. But I did talk about the impact on the city, the impact on the club, the fact that Liverpool and Everton, you know, really come together in kind of ever and kind of join with us in shared morning through that period of time. But then it was kind of what to do next And I was like I could write a book about the sort of the latter years of Dalglish's tenure, you know, the kind of the post Hillsborough stuff which is absolutely something that I know there is actually someone now that's doing that for pitch publishing.

Speaker 2: 11:12

They're doing a book of the entirety of Dalglish's tenure as the club. But I really wanted to look at like what came afterwards, what came after Dalglish, because it really is. It's such difficult period for the club. You know soon as comes in whether that's the right or wrong decision people have so many split opinions over. I personally don't think he was the right choice. I think he makes quite a lot of mistakes during his time as manager, which he himself admits. I'm not saying anything that I think Graham soon as would himself say no, jonathan's completely wrong with that.

Speaker 2: 11:48

But I then looked at like right, well, after that, get boy Evans, and you do get like this, whether the success comes up, because you mentioned there's the League Cup, the League Cup victory Yeah, there's that. But other than that there's not a great result in terms of trophies. But through soon as you do get like a decline in the club, both in terms of finishes, but also for me, like what makes Liverpool special for me as a football club is everything about football is the stadium, it's the city, it's the famous players, but it's the, it's the style of player. There's something different through the 70s and the 80s. That's different about Liverpool to the rest of England. It's a conscious choice of like we will play passing football, we will keep it on the deck, we will play attacking football, you know, regardless of who's playing in the team.

Speaker 2: 12:43

And then, the soon as I feel like that declines, you get players like Julian Dix coming in, and I'm not slating Julian Dix as a footballer Like you know, there are plenty of players who make their careers as like tough, hard-nosed footballers, but in my mind the amount of those that should play for Liverpool are a very small amount And I feel like under Evans there's a return to I know everyone seems to have, seems to have one nowadays, but like a Liverpool way There's a return to a noticeable standard of play and a quality of play. You get young players coming through who've already some of them got their first opportunities under soon as, like Robbie Fowler and and red nap, but there's a real development of those players under Roy Evans. And as much as people talk about the club's culture and the spice boys culture and things like that, the more that I actually looked at it. I'm like, soon as the club is declining and where the Roy Evans takes it to the back, to the peak and back on at the top of the perch is not really necessary.

Speaker 2: 13:55

What I was kind of looking at is the club is stabilised, the club is brought back to something that you would look at as being Liverpool And then the club can, from that point, return to the place where it has been before. I kind of look at it as you know. To some extent you know, the club might not be where it is now or where it's been for the past several years under York and Clark, if that rot that's really accelerating under Graham Sunes isn't stopped by someone and when you look at it I believe it stopped by Roy Evans.

Speaker 1: 14:31

Well, i mean I've talked to quite a few players. I mean they pouted He was having one of the best goal scoring seasons. He scored 12 that season, his last season, and you know he was only 29, 30 and soon as just caught him.

Speaker 2: 14:52

So there's so many players that soon as decides to move out. One of the big features, the first chapter of the book goes through pretty much soon as is rain and kind of because I try and I try and do that The whole thing is chronological, all things trying to get historical point of view tell the story. So the first chapter covers soon as is rain and there's a lot of analysis of like where things, where things go wrong, mistakes he makes. The biggest thing for me is he sells Peter Bayardsley to Evan as well, which is there's several ridiculous things about that. Beardsley's already started to be phased out by Dalglish. It's not like Dalglish is playing in weekend, week out and soon as just goes nah, not for me, but soon as makes a much quicker decision though, being like, right, he's going to, he's going to move out. He sells an Evan.

Speaker 2: 15:48

How would Kendall openly admitted he never in a million years thought that Peter Beardsley would be available? Just never in a million years, did you think? it's certainly not forever. And then what's amazing is that soon as then seems to spend the next two, i think two, three years trying to replace Peter Beardsley. You know, it brings in Dean Saunders, brings in Nigel Clough, both of whom are decent players. I mean Nigel Clough was, i think, post peak at that point anywhere And I think had a bit of a bad run in terms of Liverpool career. But Dean Saunders is no.

Speaker 2: 16:26

Peter Beardsley, you know, coming from the North East, there's a special appreciation for that man up in the Northeast anywhere. But you know, he seems to spend the rest of his tenure trying to replace that link between midfield and attack. That just doesn't exist And it's like, yeah, because you sold it, you would. Yes, that's the. Yeah, there's, he's fair, he seems to. He seems to upset John Barnes. Barnes is forever injured as well. That's a real problem for soon as well. Mcmanaman's in and out of form, but he plays McManaman out on the wing, whereas Roy Evans very quickly identifies that Steve McManaman's best position is in the middle of the pitch, going wherever the hell McManaman wants to go, just being the creative genius that was. I don't think he gets anywhere near enough credit for how good a footballer he was. And yeah, so much stuff where he moves players out or sets players soon, as does that Evan's, then later tries to sell.

Speaker 1: 17:31

Yeah, i think soon, as his man management was not very good at all.

Speaker 2: 17:36

Well, big part of it I mean he got.

Speaker 2: 17:38

He got the job because, rightly, he done a really good job at Rangers. You know, no one can, no one can say otherwise. You know, when he got the rage as Celtic had been pretty much the dominant team along with the other non old firm teams as well in the early eighties. But Aberdeen under the coach, and you know there's not just something. But he does then take Rangers back to the top and they go on there.

Speaker 2: 18:05

I think it's nine, isn't it? nine league titles, rangers when obviously not all of the soonest, but what the Smith is a really big part of that. You know there's a reason why, when soon as leaves, rangers don't just suddenly collapse, you know it doesn't suddenly just hit the fan because great, soon as it's gone, and if anything, this the you know the team becomes a little bit more stable post soon as. So I think that's the element. You know you said the man, management leaves a lot to be desired. I think that's why I'm soon as probably great as a player. You know could fire up, fire up the rest of the dressing room. But you know you've got Bob Paisley, you've got, you know, that figure to calm everything down.

Speaker 1: 18:51

Yeah, you know you always need that player. You know, to get everybody riled up. Massive difference between being a manager. You know player and a manager, as we all know. You know with Stevie as well. You know how well he did at Rangers and then comes to villa and just completely bombs. It's just different for him And there's so much different between soonest and then. You know the calming. You know of Roy Evans. You know you've also got the last of the boot room as well. You know that's that's bringing nostalgia back. I always thought Roy was a fantastic addition to, you know, liverpool football club, not not just playing, but you know, manager wise as well. He brought, he did, he brought calmness. You know, obviously not the trophies we were longing for, but just just a better day to day operation.

Speaker 2: 19:51

I thought Yeah, that's what I mean. I agree with you totally And that's that's a huge part of the book really is. It's not about yes, there's the league cup win, but it's not about that really. It's about the fact that, like, yes, there were by the time that Evans goes, like it's probably time that he went. I don't think he went at the wrong time. I think he probably went at the right time. It was things were starting to tail off. But he stabilizes that club. He really does.

Speaker 2: 20:18

And when you talk to anyone, any anyone who's had any involvement with him, anyone at the club, like, no one has a bad word to say about Roy Evans. Like I've never like in the whole thing of writing the book, of talking to anyone in the club, any one to do with any of the media, no one has a bad word to say about him And it's for that reason He was the calming influence that, like you said, the last kind of the last member of the boot room to manage the club, and that's it. You know it's connecting to that what was starting to feel like a lost identity because, as you know, you can have people say our Dalglish was a member of the boot room Fair or Dalglish, should also been around that club for so long and was different to Sue Ness in terms of, i think, his attachment to the club And Roy had been a part of Dalglish's staff as well. There was that connection to the great days of the club and what I think the club should be. I think Liverpool stands for more than just. You know, like if I, you know, we talked to me about Manchester City before we came on. Like you know, whatever the Gallagher brothers say, that club to me stands for nothing. As much as I appreciate everything that Guardiola does I think he's an incredible coach that's had more of an impact on modern football than most That club stands for nothing, you know, like Chelsea, it's a plastic club. It's a play thing of the rich and famous.

Speaker 2: 21:52

You know I went to Sissy in. It was the season, the first season they won the title under Guardiola And I remember like I was there to see them against Napoli at that point under Mauritius Sarri, two of the best footballing teams in the whole of Europe. At that point The Napoli fans that were the UEFA fans were made were more noise And to me like that's what I'm saying like Liverpool means more. It kind of represents more And I think that's where the club got back to that. Whether the club's playing well or not throughout the whole period, any games that I watched and feels loud you know there were so many great moments, but I'm feels loud. The club means something, it's identifiable as Liverpool, whereas under Soon-S it really wasn't Well.

Speaker 1: 22:40

I think with Roy, you know, with the younger players, he put an arm around them, while Soon-S would probably I mean, i don't know, you know, Graham, but from just what I've read, you know I've had mates, their dads, tell me stories Just, he's very stoic, he's very, you know, just one dimensional. While Roy was put his arm around the young lads, you know, if they had a bad game it would be all right, we'll get you back next game and stuff. And I think maybe that was a bit of his downfall as well, that he was a bit of a softy, you know, so to say.

Speaker 2: 23:22

Yeah, i think that's interesting thing because I think when we're saying about like Soon-S, i think that's probably why him and Walter Smith worked really well because you've got, you know, you've got Walter Smith good cop Again. I don't know Walter Smith and I certainly don't know the Internell to Rangers Football Club at the time, so I'm not going to pretend to be an expert, but the way that I always looked at it as an outsider it's like you've got you know Soon-S is definitely bad cop in that scenario. And I think that's the thing with Evans. I think it's certainly like Roy Evans certainly works really well.

Speaker 2: 23:49

At first he's that short, you know, put an arm around them exactly like you say, the first half of the season, like. But you know the end of 93-94 is not good And it doesn't look like it's going well. The start of the next season we get to the three, five, two and three things really pick up. He does bring on the young players and when they're young it really makes a massive difference. You know, you see The ones for me that always jump out that he had a really massive impact on.

Speaker 1: 24:18

Robbie Fowler.

Speaker 2: 24:20

I mean I always say like Robbie Fowler is the greatest finisher I've ever seen on a football pitch. I don't mean he was the greatest striker or anything like that, you know, but genuinely I think in terms of like if you put him one-on-one with the goalkeeper you know, eight yards out, it's going in the back of the net.

Speaker 2: 24:41

Just you'll find a way to finish it. Mcmanaman he really developed McManaman. He was a winger under Soon S right and left, kind of mostly on the right There's the great goalie scores in the FA Cup final from the right hand side coming in and shooting with his left. But you know, and the red nap as well, i always think Jamie Redknapp. I always think Jamie Redknapp would be a great player in the modern game, much like there was kind of like a dearth of really great passing midfielders in the late 1990s as football became in this country, especially quite combative in the middle of the park. I think now if you had, if you had, jamie Redknapp, he'd have been a fantastic like passing midfielder in the possession style team, a player that actually would make a massive difference in the current team.

Speaker 1: 25:30

He's like a tiago, you know, back in the 90s. basically He's our luxury player.

Speaker 2: 25:39

Yeah, well, i think you're right. This time goes on. This perhaps you know, and the 90s were a period and I do refer to this because I, oh, i come back and talk about the suit, to talk about the spice boys thing And like so much of it, i think, is like, yes, the players like, and there's, there's there's lots of talk of the players got up the stuff like and I'm not saying that they didn't, i'm not saying that at times they didn't take the mic, as the talk is no about them passing the pound coin around as they were playing. There's the suits, there's all this kind of stuff and going out and, you know, enjoying all this. But this is the thing like.

Speaker 2: 26:15

It's not like they were the only players doing that. It's not like this. It was the only club where this happened. Arsenal had a renowned drinking culture like so much so that Tony Adams had to go and have treatment for alcoholism, paul Mercent had, you know, substance abuse problems. It's not like it was just a Liverpool problem.

Speaker 2: 26:35

And I kind of try and talk about the fact that I think it was in 1990s thing. I remember watching what was it called? The class of 92 did a thing a DVD about like the, the ex-Ironman United, and Ryan Giggs says something in the middle of that DVD where he says they used to always say to him when he would come back to train in the next day He was clean shaven. They knew that he'd been out in town, so they would have a go at him. And Ryan Giggs just decided I stopped, I just stopped shaving if I was going out. So it's not like this kind of stuff wasn't happening at other clubs. The players were perhaps just a bit smarter.

Speaker 2: 27:18

But so, like I do, i can't say the spice boys thing is completely unwarranted. But I also think it's a product of its time. You've got footballers really at that point as well, going from just footballers to celebrities. You know, you're a few years away from David Beckham being one of the most identifiable people in the whole wide world. You know, michael Jordan in the mid-1990s is one of the most identifiable people in the world And he just bounces a ball for a living. You know, i think it's a cultural thing in the 90s. I'm not saying that there was nothing, i'm not saying that the players didn't take the mecca times, but I just don't think it was a solely Liverpool thing either.

Speaker 1: 28:03

Well, they started to become footballers, like you said, just started to become more fashionable. Just the way you dressed. You know people would look at football as the way they dress, and then you'd see it in the streets. You know you'd started to dress like footballers. You know the curtain.

Speaker 2: 28:24

And we are. I mean, I wanted when Beckham had that stupid me he blond me, he can think for the season two. Oh man, I was so annoyed, My parents wouldn't let me have me here like that. And now I look back and I'm like thank God they didn't let me, So I was going to that one.

Speaker 1: 28:43

I had the. I had the perm in the back in the 80s, 87, 88. I actually got my sister to put a perm in the back. That's how bad I wanted to look like. Who was it to have it? Oh, it was a new Castleboy, chris Waddle.

Speaker 2: 29:05

Oh, Waddle, You know, you know some fantastic air cut because you had a mullet.

Speaker 1: 29:11

And then he, i think he like there was some kind of pay, him, i thought it was a pair and I was like I want that because I wore the granddad shirt as well, you know the baggies. And then he says to do that And I was like, oh my God, i look back and go. What were you thinking? But again, i looked at footballers and that's the what I want. So the system, the 90, started to change. You know they were looked at differently. You know, on and off. I think that's where you know the horrendous, you know Wembley, the horrendous suits. Just come out and know about the mention. Now.

Speaker 1: 29:56

Yeah, just I mean they are like they are awful.

Speaker 2: 30:00

Like they are awful. There are some players that I would say pull them off a lot better than others, and who it is, in fact? is it on there? Yeah, it's red. Reddap wears white shoes And I think that makes them look better, because the rest of them are wearing like brown or black shoes. With a cream suit looks dreadful. I mean, the whole thing is I again like I'm in my day job as a teacher. So I remember saying to my pupils that, like you know, i showed them the white suits And I was like in the 1990s this was really daring, like for footballers to wear.

Speaker 2: 30:43

This was like really controversial. It's looked at as like it's one of the reasons why they lost that final, not the fact that the performance is atrocious. That is one of the most boring games of football I have ever watched. The 95 96 Cup final dreadful, but like this, shocked that it was in any way like really controversial because, like we're saying nowadays you know, maybe not as like horrifically garish, but they will see footballers or NBA players or NFL players or whatever. It'll turn up to the stadiums where, and like you know, spread out of Lee stylish or risky stuff and things like that, and it's just not really, you know, about an eyelid nowadays, whereas obviously back then it was horrifically daring And everything that I've ever found out about it was that it was just really it was linked to David James. David James had done modeling for our money, as many of the players had started to, like we're saying, like, footballers are starting to be looked at as celebrities, people are starting to notice what footballers wear. And it was a sponsorship deal.

Speaker 2: 31:55

I think the players thought it would be a laugh, it would be a bit stupid. There was some of them that took it a bit more seriously than others. There were some that didn't really want to but did it because they were part of the team. You know, ian Rush, ian Rush. In some of the pictures Ian Rush looks incredibly uncomfortable as he stood there in a cream suit in Wembley. But I only think it really matters because, like, united are there and United, you know, all business, kind of reflecting kind of the Ferguson era at United. It's all business, it's all about results, it's all about the team, you know, and they're in there like black. I think they wear like black jackets, gray trousers, black shoes. It's, you know, the club tie. It's very, very, very like standard official, not flash at all, and I think that kind of comparison makes it stand out even more. Not that I'm defending it, i would never wear them in a billion years, but then I wouldn't have the confidence to. So I kind of give the players credit for doing so Well.

Speaker 1: 33:05

I mean even then though. I mean you know the ties weren't all the way up. Yeah, if you put us on quite a number of players, like you know, years gone by, it would be strictly ties. nicely done, you know, the top button, make sure it's button. There was this just like blazing us about it, you know.

Speaker 1: 33:29

I get that I've got this white suit on and I look like, you know, a peppermint. It was horrendous And yeah, i mean the game itself was even worse, which you know is hard to do when you're wearing a suit that looks like that.

Speaker 2: 33:48

Well, it's like it is the loss because it had been a dreadful game But Liverpool had won, people would lock back in the suits We talked about quite fondly because, if you like, hey, look at the stupid things. We're one when we're being united, but it's. The performance is horrific.

Speaker 1: 34:05

Roy Keane.

Speaker 2: 34:06

I think Roy Keane got mad at the match. I want to say because Roy Keane genuinely, like Marshalls midfield the whole way through Liverpool downplay through them at all And it's just like it's a dreadful, dreadful game. I mean, i remember there are certain games that I made sure that I watched the entirety of and I spend more time dedicated to them in the book. Two of them are well three of them that always send that me when I go back through the book is the League Cup final, because that's the one trophy that's won, so I have to dedicate time to that. The first four three against Newcastle in 95-96, with Colleen Moore's last minute winner, because just the best game in the history of the Premier League and it deserved all the attention that I gave it. And then that cup final, because it was just just an awful, awful, awful game. Like for 90 minutes I wrote notes, but it was depressing notes, put it that way.

Speaker 1: 35:06

Well, you have to watch it again then, didn't you? Yeah, see, i only watched it once and actually you know, as you did back in the day you spent, you know the morning, you know watching the beginning, you know the whole day, you know your family had made the sandwiches and stuff and you know those kids would get to. you know, have a half and half.

Speaker 2: 35:32

The FA Cup misses that now. So much, by the way.

Speaker 1: 35:36

Well, i wish I could use the words that my granddad said when he saw those lads in white suits, but I won't because he probably, you know, banned me, or yeah, my granddad had a few choice words and spat out his Guinness, but yeah, I suppose you couldn't see a Bob Pearsley side doing that. And Kenny Dalglish would never have let them do that.

Speaker 2: 36:01

I suppose that's the side of Roy Evans. That, i suppose, what we're talking about before.

Speaker 1: 36:06

Yeah, it was like the changing of the guard for my granddad. He was like what is this, you know? and for me, you know, i was a teenager and I was like ah, you know that's. I was kind of like that's what they're wearing these days, granddad, you know, even though I was like nobody's wearing that crap, but my granddad was just like I'm not having it, i'm not having it. And then, you know, when we lost, he was even like more upset And he did, he was like blaming, just like he's like these footballers these days. And you know, if he was still alive today, he'd probably have a lot more to say about these footballers. You know, with the extra activities and fashion and all that. You know, it's just straight football And that was it.

Speaker 2: 36:55

Like you better do a job, like turn up, do and that's.

Speaker 2: 36:58

I suppose, like that's the kind of thing that like players like soon as would talk about, like soon as, and you know, like it's the same kind of thing. Like Roy Keane, like Roy Keane is constantly mocking his in the on when he was on Sky Sports, i'd be like when he's on Sky Sports for like that's your job, just do it. Like when keepers make great sales, he's like that's what you're supposed to do, like. But I suppose like that's the generational thing of like actually, you know, you know you're there, you're there to do a job, just like every other people go and work down the pit or go and do whatever, whatever factory nine to five, that's that's your job as well, do it. But I suppose that's as, as I say, england, england and Britain is changing through the 90s. I suppose that's the massive clash where you've got of the old generation and new generation And then you've got players like this, the start of the new generation, but perhaps pushing it quite far for what you'll remember, like I remember when David Beckham was on it.

Speaker 2: 37:57

I think it was on his 20 Moon or something, or on holiday with Victoria Beckham And he was photographed in a sarong And I remember, like everyone at the time being, like what's Beckham wearing a skirt for nowadays? Obviously, like you know, players I'm not saying they all go around wearing skirts, but they're certainly a lot more daring in terms of their fashion and things like that. Things have, things have changed, i suppose.

Speaker 1: 38:20

Yeah, i mean in Granada, always would be like, you know, footballers need to be proud And I think when you saw, saw that and the lads taking the mic on the pitch before a suit you know they're just laughing It was like nah, nah, they, they, they need to. You know, take this serious, And I know it has it. Has footballs changed? you know, my, my granddad probably will be one of those fellas that you know sits outside in his rocking chair and like be, be, get off my grass and all that. He's just that, that type. You know, i always see my granddad's, just to the nines, you know, during during the week. You know, always, always, you know, if he didn't have the suit on, he'd have a tie and shirt. Yeah, always, you know, and, and I think that, just I think he thought Liverpool let let him down or the players did, and I, and you know, i, i think that's that's where the generational gap started.

Speaker 2: 39:27

Because you like. It's making a mockery of the club.

Speaker 1: 39:29

Yeah, like you know, his favourite was Roger Hunt, which you know amazing football, but not, not of my generation, so I didn't have a connection there. and then my connection was, you know, the start of the Kevin Keegan in the seventies, but it was more. you know, when I, when I hit, you know being 15, 16, 17, was the John Barnes, you know, was that that? I love that team? Oh God, it's just I. to me, that team of, like you know, 87, 88, 89, probably was the most I, 89 probably was the closest.

Speaker 1: 40:11

That's going to be hard in the last couple of years, you know, because they both played absolutely amazing football, you know, and there's, there hasn't been anything in between as glorious to me, amazing footballer, but not an amazing team, you know you got your story but not an amazing team, like we've had the last couple of seasons with clop, and then you know the 87, 88, 89 teams. So, yeah, it's just you know to go back and just I can remember just me, just me. Graff had just been mad for like three hours, just he just couldn't get over it. He was just like they're making a mockery of my team, your team, darren. I was like it is my team, but you know I'm, i'm yeah they don't like to support it.

Speaker 2: 41:11

Yeah, i do understand that, because it does feel like it's weird because the club, the team is closer to winning the title, like much closer to winning the title the next season, like much, much, much closer. Like it's ridiculous. It's the season. you know, 96, 97 is the season. Like my, my best mate worded it amazingly after he read the book, because I nicely gave him one of my free copies And he said to me it's the season. it's like Liverpool come third in a two horse race.

Speaker 1: 41:43

And it's like, yeah, like, it's like.

Speaker 2: 41:45

Liverpool, you know it, you know, lead, lead the league for quite a significant part of the season and somehow just collapse, completely collapse at the end. And like that would like, you know, in the modern, in the modern season, this season has been thrown around a lot to describe like Arsenal, you know, like botlas, but like there is to some extent like Liverpool I'm not saying that the bottle is completely in 96, 97, but like to some extent it's noticeable in a lot of the seasons, especially post, really like from the FA cup final kind of onwards. Actually I would say like it's a little bit of a turning point in the book and in the story of Evans. Tenure really is, although the club just continued to go higher up the table, that thing of like either dropping points in ridiculously stupid times or bottling big games is something that comes back. you know the fact that you know. But then they'll win big games, particularly like they'll be united when it doesn't matter, like the amount of times that Liverpool will be united, like there's the in the. You know, in one of the first seasons they stop you from winning the league but it just doesn't matter. And it seems like so much through the 80s is Liverpool lose at the worst times, drop points at the worst times and then FA cup finals like the first really big example of like not turning up in a big game, just not turning up. Everything about the style of play just doesn't come through in that game and it does seem like a bit of a turning point in that things are never quite the same after. Silent play is never quite the same, i think after that as well, he seems to.

Speaker 2: 43:36

He seems to want to shore up the midfield a little bit. Which is so criticized like and that's something I talk about as well in the book is that the midfield so often got criticized and the defense got criticized for being lightweight and in loads of goals. When you actually look, one of Liverpool's biggest problems yes, there are times where the defense was leaking, but nowhere near as much as you would think Actually, one of the biggest problems is that when you look at goals scored, quite often, and especially in the middle of the 1990s, united score loads, newcastle score loads, arsenal score a decent amount, but a ridiculously stingy at the back as Venger kind of gets his grips into that team Liverpool's biggest problem is they just don't score enough. They do not score enough. And for a team that has and you know as I rightly attached to them, like this, reputation of being a ridiculously entertaining football team. Like I said, that for both, for threes against Newcastle are two of the most entertaining games probably in the history of English football For a team that scores so many. So often, when you get to the end of the season the amount of times where you look at the goals scored and it's not that high, and the reason why and I come back to this so often is that there's just no one else consistently other than Robbie Fowler.

Speaker 2: 45:11

Fowler is incredible, scores so many great goals, leads the team in scoring, but then you've got no one else consistently. You've got Collymore in 95-96, is fantastic as a secondary gunner. Before that you've got Ian Rush. Rush settles into this role when Evans comes in, rush settles into this amazing role of being like the number two to Fowler and seems to be okay with that and really plays like a number two role and he's brilliant at it.

Speaker 2: 45:42

And then after 95-96, collymore is inconsistent. You get like Carl Hines-Riedler who is inconsistently well, actually like consistently, does not score very many. Then you get Michael Owen who comes in, but then by that point, fitting him and Fowler into the team as a nightmare. Because the whole thing of why Collymore and Fowler worked is that Collymore would sacrifice himself for Fowler and Rush would sacrifice himself for Fowler, whereas Owen and Fowler are like both alphas, effectively They're both the leading scorer, and neither really would sacrifice for the other, not in a selfish way, just their styles of play didn't work in a way where one could sacrifice for the other, and that's a huge. And then Fowler then gets injured and is never sadly, never the same player after that knee injury, and then Owen gets injured, not long after the book finishes.

Speaker 2: 46:49

And that's a huge problem is that they're never able to supplement Fowler's goals And it means that in the games where Fowler isn't on top form, liverpool drop points. and that tends to be the games where they stupidly drop points against like bottom of the table. and the amount of times it happens where the drop points against teams that are lower down in the table because Fowler's just not at the races, the team aren't clicking that game and it costs them in the end, especially 96, 97. it really costs them.

Speaker 1: 47:22

Yeah, most of them really tough as well, you know, with the four years managing Liverpool.

Speaker 2: 47:30

and then you know you've Hulie is starting to come in, and then you've got the ridiculous let's manage together Like I don't think it was a bad idea, like he knew it was a stupid idea, and he said, like he went ahead with this because he was asked to, but like it was never going to work. They both had very different ideas. I forget the name. There's a player that they bring in together And I think it's evidence. evidence season was a right back, hulie season was a right midfielder, and they're just like that. That in itself is a small example of why it was never going to work. You take one player and it says a lot about, like, the sort of ethos of both managers. You know Evan sees, you know he's a attacking player.

Speaker 1: 48:24

Let's play him at right back.

Speaker 2: 48:25

Kind of like what he did with Macathea. You know he's a box of box midfielder, let's play him at right back and have him go up and down the right flank constantly from when back. You know that's a small example of why it was never going to work. The players said that they never knew really who was like. Who do you go to? you know, when you need to talk about something, who do you go to? Because just just by the nature of bringing someone in, evans has been emasculated there anyway, i suppose in the eyes of the players. You know if we're saying that part of the issue was that the players thought that Roy could be a bit too much of a soft touch Doing that cuts his legs out from underneath him already And again.

Speaker 2: 49:10

Like you know, this is not me saying anything bad about Gerard Hullier, gerard Hullier talks like kind of like me in a way, like not from Liverpool, but like talks about Liverpool, the city and the club, like in such glowing terms that he talks about when he came to Liverpool not as a manager, not as a player, and talks about how he developed a connection to the club, what you can say in the same way that I think, about my attachment to the club, which is falling in love with a city and a football club. But it just was never going to work. And by the time that Roy decides to step aside, it's the right call because it's just not working. You know they wanted sort of like a directive of a football type thing from Hullier And that was never going to work either.

Speaker 2: 50:03

Because in the 1990s that thing just didn't work because the manager was looked at as kind of the old school thing of you're the bloke who makes the decisions, you're the bloke who's in charge of the football club, basically, whereas nowadays, you know we're totally fine that someone's just been brought in who's going to help clop, recruit players. We're absolutely fine with that because we recognise that it's not all down to your good in terms of bringing in the players to revitalise this team. The players we've been linked with today already interest me, but you know, hullier and Evans, it was never going to work and Evans recognised that And, like I say, when Evans leaves, he leaves because it's the right time and it's the right thing to do for the football club moving forward, which again says a lot about him as a man, like he didn't say because he wanted to keep collecting the paycheck.

Speaker 2: 50:57

He stepped down because he recognised like this is going to break the football club if I stay here. Like they brought in Hullier. the board clearly want to move forward with Joe I Hullier Let's let him have his time and see how things go. I've had my time. I want to leak up, stabilise the club. Let's move on, kind of thing.

Speaker 1: 51:20

I just think it was sad because you know that was the closed, basically chatter on the boot room, yeah, and from that point on it's never yeah, it's never come back.

Speaker 2: 51:32

It's like. I do think it's like a, it's an ethos of the club that I think Jürgens looking to like associate themselves with in terms of like. I think that's a big reason why he wanted Stephen Gerrard in. You know, when he was done in his early stages of coaching, have him as part of the club. I think that's probably something that long term, he will look to do when he has former players involved.

Speaker 2: 51:57

I mean for me, no, on his way out, talked about you know, maybe you'll come back to the club as a player in a few years. You know, maybe his you know he'll have changed position or something like that. I mean, i think for me not complete, i know the field, but that's another thing. Down the line, maybe go, but you know he also said like, maybe when I'm coaching I could come back. So I do think that that's again talk about Liverpool being a special club and there being something about Liverpool. I think that's something that the club could really look to bring back a little bit, not in the same way that happened with Man United, because it looked like that was just like United.

Speaker 2: 52:37

it just seemed like that was like jobs for the boys. I don't want, I don't mean anything like that, But I do think it's important to have people at the club that understand the football club you know, otherwise you become just like any other football club, and Liverpool can never become like that.

Speaker 1: 52:56

Yeah, i mean that's why I was sad really to see Milne go, because I think he obviously he thinks he has a few more years left in him. I mean he's the fittest what 37 year old I've probably ever seen. He's won the what is it? the lactate test.

Speaker 1: 53:14

Yeah, everything season, since he's been at Liverpool, but he's another one that I hope comes back to Liverpool and coaches, because I think he can go on to be an amazing manager as well, and this agrees. I mean, we can look everybody, you know number one. Everyone on their lips would say Stevie. Obviously you know who will follow clop, is it Stevie? Well, obviously you know we're not doing so well at Villa. He needs to get back to that now Yeah.

Speaker 1: 53:48

Next couple of years. He needs to make the right choice And the next job's huge Yeah, Yes, definitely. Can I see Stevie being Liverpool manager? I actually can't.

Speaker 2: 54:03

I would pick a pill I could have, But like I would question if you couldn't get it done at a club like Aston Villa. Can?

Speaker 1: 54:16

you really take on a job as big as.

Speaker 2: 54:18

Liverpool. Yes, you can have the right people around you And yeah, you know what? Maybe Stevie goes and gets a job either. It depends where he goes next. Do you either go for a top championship club and look to bring them up, or do you look to try and rescue a team that's in danger of allegation and show that you can really recover a club, and then maybe but I think certainly his route to the corner, to the pool manager, became a lot more difficult when he showed And there's a lot of like stuff that came out of Aston Villa around like tactical, not ineptitude.

Speaker 1: 54:58

I don't want to say that because I wasn't in Aston.

Speaker 2: 55:00

Villa. I don't know anyone from Aston Villa or anything, but I heard lots of stuff on, you know, from the media, around real criticisms of a lack of tactical flexibility and maturity on his part In terms of Milner. Like I do think like Milner And first.

Speaker 1: 55:22

In fact, milner has been picked up by Brighton says a lot like Brighton.

Speaker 2: 55:28

Brighton's recruitment team, as you know, we've all seen, are incredible, do incredible work, like. So the fact that they've picked him up as a good sign in terms of like, can he still play at the top level? He'll play a role, you know, i can see him playing like the right back role that Kaisado's had to play, where, like, they've had that right back that comes in for Brighton. I can see him doing that. But I, you know, in terms of like, bringing in as a coach, like so much of Milner's game was predicated on hard work and just like effort and graft And actually like, when I think of like Klopp's style of play, i think of hard work and graft and effort, and actually like if that ends up feeding into his tactical identity, like either way, like as a coach. You know, if you could and I think Milner would be a good coach because he just seems like a leader, a leader of men, without sounding really corny I think he could step into that role no matter what.

Speaker 1: 56:32

Well, i mean, obviously Brighton are probably thinking the same thing that you know I was thinking as well. You bring in this amazing football player who's 37 and Brighton have a young team and you have these young footballers watch James Milner in training every day and going. It's an example where, as hard as he does and I'm 21 and he's 37.

Speaker 2: 57:00

Yeah, why am I not doing that? Yeah, that is a good point actually.

Speaker 1: 57:06

Yeah, i think that's what Liverpool will miss And I think a lot of people miss kind of the boat on that. They were like why? I mean, you know, if you go on the Twitter there, she's got people going why just Klopp want to give him an extra year and then turn around when the club said no and then start arguing like you know, well, klopp was going to get him and the club overruled him. And now I'm pissed, i'm like, well, which is it? You know? I mean, for me, keeping James Milner for another year is only a good thing.

Speaker 2: 57:47

Yeah, so for me, like keeping, i wasn't up in arms when Milner was. you know the call was made alone. but having said that, the club is going to be going through, in terms of some of the playing staff, quite a considerable change this summer, most change the club's had in quite some time.

Speaker 1: 58:08

So actually, having Milner there I mean there are other leaders.

Speaker 2: 58:12

It's not like Milner's the sole leader in the dressing room but having Milner there as a leader, to kind of have these new players come in and be like look, this is how we do things at Liverpool Football Club. Again, it's not like there's not those players. You've got Van Dyck, you've got Stalagh, you know you have got those players. Obviously, Hendo, you've got those players to come in and be like this is the standard we expect, but you can't have too many leaders at the football club.

Speaker 1: 58:43

So I do get it. Exactly, you know it's going to be an interesting summer.

Speaker 2: 58:51

I can't wait for the first. I can't wait for the first game next season. I can't wait.

Speaker 1: 58:56

See, i, you know I was so done with this season about January. I was absolutely done with it And you know, out of six seasons, you know having one bad season, you're like you know. OK, you know, but it was just. it was frustrating because I think we all know there is a team still there. I mean, you know everybody, you know Hendo's done for being who's done, but you just all you need to do is watch the last 10 games of the season and see that they're not done.

Speaker 1: 59:30

It's just lots of different things caused this problem not getting a few fresh faces in during the summer, having all these muscle injuries, having the World Cup. you know, i know every other team has had the same issue. I get it, i agree, though It's coming so close. I mean, i think one of the issues as being a football supporter is we forgot their human beings as well. And, as Bandai said, he's like you think we're robots and we're not. We have feelings. We came so close to winning everything. I mean, as a football fan, i was done after last season. you know my mentally and physically, i was absolutely drained. Imagine being the players.

Speaker 2: 1:00:24

Yeah, i mean, i think, like when you say, like the World Cup, you know, and stuff like that, like made the same for everyone, like the thing about Liverpool is Liverpool's style of play, as everyone else I guess, so focused on pressing, on hard work. If Liverpool's pressing as we've seen, if Liverpool's pressing isn't on, then it's going to be a good thing, because I wouldn't say that the players are the most naturally defensively gifted players ever in terms of, like sitting back and just stopping things. So much of it comes from that cohesive team approach And if the pressing isn't as good, from more from Femino, from, you know, when it was Gakpo, from Diaz, anyone from Darwin who's playing in the front three, if the pressing is not as good there, it's going to have good impact And I feel like that's happened all season. The pressing's not been there, so the team hasn't been there. As a result. Then there's you know, the defence has been poorer. Virgil van Dijk has looked so much more exposed. I do worry about van Dijk. I think there's stuff from this season that does worry me in terms of like a drop off, but I'm hoping that, given a summer to recover and recuperate, that things will. Hopefully he'll be the normal van Dijk again next season.

Speaker 2: 1:01:45

But what I was going to say was, you know, for a style of play that's so focused on pressing, to then have a season where, like we say, we're going for everything right And you know I didn't get so many Then having a World Cup. So you've then got a short and summer for the World Cup. You've played late because you've got all the way until the Champions League final. Then you come back early, you've got a World Cup. So then you're not really having as much of a break around winter or around whatever you normally would have. I think that naturally causes it. I think there's only it can only be noticed that Liverpool started to perform better towards the end of the season, because perhaps then you almost get like for lack of better words like second wind as you get in towards the end of the season. Liverpool would noticeably better when Liverpool were in. Like the big games, the classic thing is against United at Anfield. You know that performance would not be better. The pressing was noticeably better. You know.

Speaker 2: 1:02:49

I think so much of this season is circumstance. I do think there's an element of which changes do need to be made. But I agree with you. I think it's about measured changes, like the players that we've been linked with today in terms of the midfield, i think will only be a help. You know, cornair, i've seen us linked with from Munch and Gladback There's two around. There's nothing nice Like. These look like players that will fit in with what we think of as a club team. So having those small changes, hopefully next season going to go again.

Speaker 1: 1:03:25

Well, hopefully by the time this episode goes out, which is probably a week, but Callister's already signed, which will be good. I've seen that like daily. Yeah, i'm just like just put a picture of him or not a picture a proper picture of him at Liverpool signing. You know, i think we've gone through it. You know, this past summer, the Bellingham saga, you know Tusha Mene. You know we get excited and then we get let down or something that you know I'm on the. You know the Bellingham is. I can't really say he's generational talent because I haven't really seen too much of him. His World Cup wasn't the greatest World Cup, you know. Now there's a knee issue with him.

Speaker 2: 1:04:19

That would be the thing that would jump out at me. What is he now? Was he like 21? 90. Like, and he's already had a few problems.

Speaker 1: 1:04:34

Like I totally get from Ray, because it obviously looks like he's off to Ray Al, doesn't it? Like you know, madrid's point of view, you've got all the cash in the world.

Speaker 2: 1:04:42

You couldn't buy him back there last season, so you've got a fair amount of cash knocking around. Then even fielders, because Madrid should increase can't go on forever, so you know, and they want to bring in named players, right, and as much as everyone. I think the time to sign Bellingham wasn't this summer. I think that time had passed. I think last summer or the summer before there was definitely a chance to sign Bellingham. He seemed to want to stay at Dortmund and develop at Dortmund, perhaps understandably. But then this summer he had you know, he's had a really good season for Dortmund, and Dortmund themselves have again collapsed at the end, but had a really good season. That is the ultimate in bottling it.

Speaker 2: 1:05:29

If we talk about bottling it, see a guard. But like at that point, i think it's then difficult to get him. I really do. And again, if you're Jude Bellingham, you're making the move that hopefully he's going to make your career. And Liverpool haven't made the Champions League, you know that's naturally going to, that's just going to factor into that decision, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 1:05:55

Well, the crazy thing is to, though he's only 20. He could go to Madrid till he's 24 and then go to Liverpool.

Speaker 2: 1:06:04

Yeah it's not like it's done Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:06:06

Yeah, i think the media made so much of this. I don't think and I've said it so many times I don't think FSG or Klopp ever ever said they were in for Bellingham. Klopp has said you know he appreciates the lot. He's said they're making the fielders Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:06:31

I think the thing for me is like When we saw the price tag that supposedly was going to be. I remember like $130 million was mentioned. I mean, in the end I've seen so many prices rumored for what we were going to plan. I'm sorry. I've seen like $90 million plus a whole bunch of add-ons and stuff like that, which I saw people complain and I'm going.

Speaker 2: 1:06:56

Supposedly we were out because it was $130 million For me the big thing about the whole team that we've seen the FSG and we've seen Clop and the whole recruitment team build. that whole team wasn't built around right, let's just go and splash a whole bunch of cash. Yes, people go like Van Dyke, but Van Dyke is the one. Van Dyke is the one where Liverpool went out and were like, right, we have to get him. And they went out and got him And I remember when he was bought there was people going that's a lot of money for Virgil Van Dyke And in the end they were proved very wrong. So it's not like FSG won't spend if needed to, but it has to be on the right player.

Speaker 2: 1:07:43

The majority of the team has actually been built around spending astutely, getting players of a certain age range that can then grow, which better than would have fit. But price range wise I'd belling them didn't fit that. The players that were today and over the last few weeks being linked with, like Kona, like Turram, like McAllister and Calvester, will be more expensive. But I think he's worth that. I really do. But Kaisado has been linked again. Kaisado's linked with everybody because he's just like Cantier Mark 2. You know we've been linked with. I've seen Romeo Lavia at Southampton who looks like one of the better players in that team, Yuriy T Yeleman's. again, it's just like the list of players is like this, but they do all seem to fit that Like. whoever it is that we go for from that list, it's the list of players that fit what I think Liverpool tends to do in terms of their recruitment policy.

Speaker 1: 1:08:51

Yeah, i mean we have to trust in Klopp. I mean he's brought us so much success. And yeah, you know, just like any manager, they can be criticised. But you know, had this conversation yesterday. It just seems that you know, when everything kind of goes bad, FSG get blamed, but when everything goes good, nobody says anything about FSG. Yeah, it's all Jürgen. Yeah, you know, but they're the ones that appointed him, they're the ones that paid his wages, you know they. Well, jürgen's done medicals. Well, he's been paid to Tartar. You know it's not like he's getting 10 quid. So, you know, i trust in the man, still have a lot of faith in him. And I just think you know he thought Tushimene was the one. I think he was going for. Tushimene, to be honest, rather than Bellingham.

Speaker 2: 1:09:54

Yeah, It's not like there's never a chance that'll happen, you know it's. I mean there was rumours. There was rumours Like weeks, weeks, weeks back about him not being as happy at Madrid and all this stuff That seems to have died down in recent days, weeks and weeks and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 1:10:14

But it's not like it could never happen.

Speaker 2: 1:10:15

It's not like a young player has ever got forced out or got unhappy at Real Madrid. You know like at football clubs a circus often in a really good and fun way, but it is a circus, you know, where you know the left players go, who, like you know.

Speaker 1: 1:10:32

I remember and like did that like I and Robin go, who then went on to be in.

Speaker 2: 1:10:36

Real for Bayern Munich, and it's like, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a glamour club, isn't it? It's a great club, but it's a glamour club.

Speaker 1: 1:10:43

Yeah, all I ask you, know, club, if we reach another final, don't let anyone wear white suits, that's it. And white suits and football periods Never again. It's just a horrible thing. Everybody's minds. But where, where can we purchase your book? I know Amazon. Yeah, over the. So it'll be on, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:11:11

Beyond Amazon. It's available on Waterstones as well. It's available in Waterstones in Liverpool as well. It's also available in Smiths as well, and Smiths in Liverpool as well, so it's available in plenty of places. If you go on pitch putters, you'll be able to get links to it as well, where you'll be able to see that. I've literally just had my second book. I had permission for my second book coming through from pitch as well, which is on the going to be on the 87 88 team as well. So there'll be more from me coming as well about Liverpool, cause I just I get to go back to the city as well. Yeah, that's brilliant. So in August I'm back in Liverpool as well because John doing an event in Waterstones in Liverpool, one along with John Gibbons from field rep as well.

Speaker 1: 1:12:04

Sounds well. Congratulations on the first book, hopefully. You know, as I said first of many, second one I'm sure be even better than the first. But, jonathan, i really appreciate you coming on spending. You know it's crazy how the time goes by already an hour 15 of just chatting, you know, talking about your book, talking about Liverpool football club. You know I can talk about Liverpool every single day of the week, every hour. You know it just makes me happy. You know bad season, but you know we go again and we see where we're at next season. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 1:12:42

And I think it'll be a lot better next season too.

Speaker 1: 1:12:45

Yeah, all right, mate. Well, i appreciate you coming on And please like and subscribe. I will put down the links for Jonathan's book. So please go out, get a copy, you won't be disappointed and tune in next time.